VueScan vs. Epson Scan

Tony-S · Oct 4, 2009

I recently purchased an Epson V500 to scan film and it seems like the Epson software isn't so great. Often times, for no reason apparent to me, the scans of B&W negatives come out extremely grainy. I have also tried to save presets, but not all the functions are saved - so what's the point of that?

I have used VueScan for many years and it is compatible with film scanning with the V500, but it does not support Digital ICE as far as I can tell. It is also substantially faster at scanning, even when using two-pass scans. Does anyone else have both apps and if so, which do you prefer?

cooltouch · Oct 4, 2009

I don't have a V500, am using a 4990 instead. I use Epson Scan on a regular basis, and have found that the version for the 4990 probably handles B&W better than color negatives. I usually set the "Image Type" to 24-bit color instead of grayscale. I don't know that it makes much of a difference, really.

Recently I d/l'd the trial version of VueScan. I like some things about it, and don't like other things. One thing I haven't been able to figure out how to do yet with VueScan is scanning images in batch with different profiles for each image. It seems to want to scan every image with the same setting, including exposure. This doesn't work well for me, and until I find a workaround to this issue, I'm not interested in it, since it seems to require scanning images one at a time if different profiles are required.

PVia · Oct 4, 2009

Epson scan works great for me in conjunction with Photoshop, which is a must. Many times new users enter the fray and are not aware of that, since it's assumed by many veteran users.

Digital ICE is useless to me and has no place IMO when making quality scans. Maybe it's helpful when trying to fly through shoeboxes of old dirty slides where you're just trying to preserve images in digital form rather than create a piece of fine art.

I tried the various lower-end versions of Silverfast, wasn't crazy about them; they also crashed or froze several times, and I don't need that headache.

I tried the Vuescan trial and there were some things I liked, but overall the Epson software works fine for me when used with PS.

Scanning is an art, just as color correction is, and it takes much time to really know your software and its capabilities.

pellicle · Oct 5, 2009

Tony

having played with various scanner softwares since 1999 I feel that none are intuitive, if you happen to get the hang of one over another then go with that! I have struggled with vuescan since version 7.1.someting and just never got to like it. The same is not true of the Epson software which I have been gradually finding sophisticated control within the simplicity of presentation. For instance somone asked me once about doing bulk scanning on the Epson, and thought it was impossible. I wrote this page to explain that to them.

Your mileage may vary (as always) but I like the Epson scan the most for what I do.

To answer your question on noise I would ask for some information. Are you scanning as black and white or are you scanning as colour?

For instance using the Epson (or Nikonview) software and adjusting the controls for each channel rather than allowing the software to do what it wants with what it thinks your negative looks like is often better. I've explained that in this article.

I find that there is some focus issues and differing channel noise between R G and B layers, and so for black and white I use professional, scan everything as positive and then invert, and use only black and white setting for my scan. This optimises my scans considerably. For example if you read this page, you can see how I've found that each layer has differing focus issues. If you examine your own scanner output perhaps you can see if this is applicable to you. If so then you can try my advices there.

Essentially when combining differeing noise levels (present in each of the R G and B you compound the noise that may be present.

Epson's sharpening is not as controlable as an unsharp mask in photoshop, so you may find it better to start with your sharpening there.

Also, before applying curves (after inverting and level settings) on your scans consider using unsharp mask at a radius of 60pixels and 14 ~ 20% to boost your contrast and then applying your curves to taste. .

see if that helps your scanning?

Tony-S · Oct 5, 2009

Thanks for that info, Chris. I will give it a try when I get home tonight. I scan mostly B&W 120 film so I'll see if I can improve upon my scanning skills.

donbga · Oct 5, 2009

pellicle said:
scans consider using unsharp mask at a radius of 60pixels and 14 ~ 20% to boost your contrast and then applying your curves to taste.

IMO, I think the use of global USM in scanning software is the devil's playground. It simply exaggerates grain and is almost always overdone when used. It also distorts the tonal values IMO, but as you point out sharpening in Photoshop allows much more control and flexibility.

BTW, there is a difference between bulk scanning and batch scanning though the distinction really doesn't apply to Epson flat bed scanners.

Finally the OP may wish to review the batch scanning instructions found here:

http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/batchscanning.html

since there are some notes compiled there that I don't think is covered in your blog.

williamtheis · Oct 5, 2009

"It's called grain. It's supposed to be there!" and scanning dye based like e6 has none. If you want to minimize grain, wet mount the negative. Ice is for dust and scratches only

I get my kammi fluid from Aztek and there is a V750 kit
Dead Link Removed
plus some video training clips

and there are 3rd party mounting kits for most other epson scanners. I can hunt the links if you are interested.

pellicle · Oct 6, 2009

Don

Don Bryant said:
IMO, I think the use of global USM in scanning software is the devil's playground. It simply exaggerates grain and is almost always overdone when used.

couldn't agree more ... but like any tool it has its uses. If you are a cabinet maker you may not think a chainsaw to be much use ...

however if you try the settings I suggested on a typical digital image I think you'll be surprised ... if you can spot any grain increase I'll send you a genuine Finnish Fazer 200g chocolate bar.

It also distorts the tonal values IMO, but as you point out sharpening in Photoshop allows much more control and flexibility.

of course ... as does application of curves or levels ... but assuming "apply with care" and using 16 bit starting points I'm sure you'll not see much in posterisation.

BTW, there is a difference between bulk scanning and batch scanning though the distinction really doesn't apply to Epson flat bed scanners.

I agree ... it hardly applies to anyone here which is why I didn't mention it. Here at my work we use this little beastie

it scans roll of 35mm film in short order (around a minute), is self calibrating and produces 4800dpi scans. We use this for a rather large mass digitization project.

This creature does our books

donbga · Oct 6, 2009

pellicle said:
Here at my work we use this little beastie

it scans roll of 35mm film in short order (around a minute), is self calibrating and produces 4800dpi scans. We use this for a rather large mass digitization project.

This creature does our books

Chris,

Pretty cool - no Very Cool! What kind of scanners are those?

Don

pellicle · Oct 6, 2009

The film scanner is an Eclipse and the robot book scanner is Dead Link Removed.

they are kinda cool to watch in action ... but then there's the booring work to do after that

Tony-S · Oct 18, 2009

Ok, another question. I shot a roll of Ektar 100 (120) and when scanning with VueScan there are four Ektar options. None of them seem to scan correctly as there is a magenta hue to all of them. My display is calibrated and my printer has the proper profiles for the papers I use (Canon i9900 + Red River Acrtic Polar Satin). The magenta is apparent both on the screen and in final prints. I can bring it back to close to "normal", but it seems it should be better than this from the scanner? TIA.

donbga · Oct 18, 2009

Tony-S said:
Ok, another question. I shot a roll of Ektar 100 (120) and when scanning with VueScan there are four Ektar options. None of them seem to scan correctly as there is a magenta hue to all of them. My display is calibrated and my printer has the proper profiles for the papers I use (Canon i9900 + Red River Acrtic Polar Satin). The magenta is apparent both on the screen and in final prints. I can bring it back to close to "normal", but it seems it should be better than this from the scanner? TIA.

Tony,

Take a look at this tutorial for scanning color negatives written by David F. Stein. I found it to be very useful. There is also another tutorial written about color negative scanning with Vuescan that I'll attempt to find the URL to and post later.

Dead Link Removed

EDIT:

Here is the other informative article:

http://benneh.net/blog/index.php/2008/04/21/better-colour-neg-scanning-with-vuescan/

Don

Tony-S · Oct 18, 2009

Thank you once again, Don. I'll give those a read.

cooltouch · Oct 18, 2009

I've had this same issue with Ektar (35mm, though), scanning with my 4990 using Epson Scan. Not so much magenta, as plain old purple. For my image processing software I use Paint Shop Pro X2. It has an image editing suite called Express Lab. After importing the image into express lab, usually all it takes is one click with the eyedropper tool to eliminate the purple cast. So, for me, the purple is really no big deal cuz it's so easy to fix.

pellicle · Oct 19, 2009

Morning folks

I put this down to a subtle issue on exactly where the cross overs of the RG and B meet the C Y M and K on their respective curves. I am sure that different printers (colour darkroom wet chemistry printers) would dial in different filters for compensation of this. I find that (for me) the most controllable manner to handle this is to apply a little work on the Hue control in Photoshop. I start with the Yellow may then tweak the red then roll over to the other end and fiddle with the Cyan and Magenta relationships

try shifting gently first the hue then shift the lightness a little +ve or -ve

see how you go

I find that for some of my films its pretty consistent what I need to do with it

Tony-S · Oct 19, 2009

That is pretty much what I do as well, but I'd like to have a preset or something in VueScan so that I don't have to.

pellicle · Oct 19, 2009

try software called colourneg or negpos (can't recall its name now)

mrred · Oct 20, 2009

pellicle said:
try software called colourneg or negpos (can't recall its name now)

ColorNeg & ColorPos, http://www.c-f-systems.com/Plug-ins.html

NeoFan400 · Oct 22, 2009

my first post here =)

I use the Epson software a lot, and I do get excellent results on my 4990. I also gave VueScan a try, what I like about it is the option to choose "White balance" settings, makes scanning a little more fun, and post processing less time.

pellicle · Oct 22, 2009

neofan400 said:
my first post here =)

hey ... welcome aboard ^.^

VueScan vs. Epson Scan

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