Volcano erupts in Iceland

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tim rudman

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It's hard to believe in one's fellow man sometimes.

They interviewed hopeful travellers at a UK airport for the news. On the radio I heard a man say 'That stupid island Iceland. First they steal all our money and now they cancel all our holidays!'

It makes one despair about some of the human race.
Tim
 

Shaggysk8

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I agree, but some of those folks walking around seem awfully close to the eruption. :surprised:

Thats icelandic people for you! NUTS!!!!!!!

They have been having issue with people getting lost and dying and also getting way to close, in Iceland they trust you to be sensible but for some reason some people just do not get how burnt your finger could get
 

Photo Engineer

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The last eruption of this sort, 200 years ago, was written about by Benjamin Franklin. At that time, they noted that Europe had the year with no summer due to the ash cloud.

PE
 

Shaggysk8

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The last eruption of this sort, 200 years ago, was written about by Benjamin Franklin. At that time, they noted that Europe had the year with no summer due to the ash cloud.

PE

Wrong volcano, its near it but not that one, and if that one goes off people will really have something to moan about, people in the east of iceland are stuck in there homes and people are moaning they cant fly, STUPID!

Also that last eruption killed 1/5th of the population
 

Photo Engineer

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Wrong volcano, its near it but not that one, and if that one goes off people will really have something to moan about, people in the east of iceland are stuck in there homes and people are moaning they cant fly, STUPID!

Also that last eruption killed 1/5th of the population

I never said it was the same volcano. In fact, the reports did not say what relationship it had to the current volcano, only that it was severe and in Iceland.

Sorry.

PE
 

railwayman3

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It's hard to believe in one's fellow man sometimes.

They interviewed hopeful travellers at a UK airport for the news. On the radio I heard a man say 'That stupid island Iceland. First they steal all our money and now they cancel all our holidays!'

It makes one despair about some of the human race.
Tim

I despair more of the radio/tv reporters and producers, who only pick out the more uninformed or stupid members of the human race to interview. I suppose they think that someone making a normal, sensible, or considered response doesn't make for "exciting" or "meaningful" broadcasting. :rolleyes:
 

Andy K

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To be honest this no flights situation has been fantastic, from a photographic point of view. I was in Wales the last few days, under clear blue skies which were completely free from the usual sky graffiti caused by aircraft contrails.
 

Andrew Moxom

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Well for those that have been planning a trip for nearly 18 months to visit the UK with 3 other APUG'ers, this is not really fantastic from my perspective. It adds stress to what was planned on being a great time. Now it's in serious jeopardy this close to the wire. The closer delays get to our scheduled Friday April 23rd departure, the more likely it will impact us.

I've got my figners crossed, but not sure I am confident in this trip happening on schedule.
 

Q.G.

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Several airlines like Air Italia were close to going bankrupt before this disaster struck and so was British Airways .http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/04/the_costs_of_closed_uk.html you don't know what your talking about.

That's what you think. :wink:

Losing three days worth of (their northern European) business will not be a disaster. And most of their lost business they will recoup once the ban is over.

There is no disaster, except in some of the media, and in the minds of ill-informed people.

People who do know what they are talking about only are annoyed by all those who don't. And there are way too many people who are all too happy to believe that the world will end every time someone of something farts.
 

mopar_guy

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Yeah, we have a lot of volcanoes here too. Mostly they don't do anything. Once every few hundred years BANG. I still remember when Mount St. Helens blew in 1980. That really made a mess in places.:surprised:
 
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I just read of some people being stuck in Denver for a conference, scheduled going back to Denver since a couple of days back. Their flights are being re-scheduled to the 26th now...

It looks more and more likely that the APUG trip to Cornwall will not happen on the 23rd. But at least we are home in our own beds unlike some of those poor people sleeping on blankets on stone floors in an airport thousands of miles from their homes.
 

Andy K

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Well for those that have been planning a trip for nearly 18 months to visit the UK with 3 other APUG'ers, this is not really fantastic from my perspective. It adds stress to what was planned on being a great time. Now it's in serious jeopardy this close to the wire. The closer delays get to our scheduled Friday April 23rd departure, the more likely it will impact us.

I've got my figners crossed, but not sure I am confident in this trip happening on schedule.


That is unfortunate, so try to see the positive. The skies are free from contrails, the world outside is free from aircraft noise, so I'm enjoying it, making some photographs.


There is nothing we can do about this situation, surely it is better to make the most of it rather than depressing ourselves about what could have been.
 
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Iceland, don't you just love it. First they gave us Bjork, now its a volcano with a mere hiccup. What next, Nanna McPhee and the 'Big Bang'?

The affect is global. Down in Australia, Qantas has cancelled all flights to Europe for the second day running with a third likely, and cannot really sustain this in terms of financial capacity, with the European flights a cash-cow when domestic flights are often sold for a pittance.

Any photographers out and about photographing the purple sunsets? I imagine that would be quite a treat.
 

Q.G.

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KLM and Lufthansa have flown yesterday to test the air. So far no problems, and further testflights are in the air now.
There may be a lot of ash in the air, but there is an awfull lot of air in which there is not.

There are no (repeat: no) purple sunsets to photograph. No ashy haze. Nothing.
Just clear, blue skies, with the sun beating down on us.
Skies that in fact are cleaner than usual now there are no planes leaving dirt trails behind.

Losing three days of income represents a reduction of 0.8%.
That is assuming that they lose all income on these days. Which they don't.
It isn't going to put anyone out of business.
 

marco.taje

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Not to sound patronizing, but this sounds a bit superficial, Q.G.

As a person working in the aviation sector, I can tell you that things aren't black and white like that. The aviation business in general lives with far more stretched economic balance than other industries. Expenses are ENORMOUS. I'm not even saying that a 4 days stop will put everyone out of business, but things aren't simple as you try to state them.
And ash doesn't move in "blocks". There might be "an awfull lot of air in which there is not", but even a tiny bit might turn into glass and occlude the combustion chambers. Do you know how narrow are those ducts? So, maybe you can run 20 times into a volcanic ash cloud without running into serious trouble, but it takes one time to have all the blame on you, without excuses. That's why I also think that those test flights are a bit of a "commercial" boutade. Without specific instrumentation, what are you exactly testing? Is that like "OK, if we don't lose both engines, then flying here is ok?". Sorry, it doesn't work that way :smile:

Well, sorry for the digression, it's just for the pleasure of discussion!

And P.S.: there is no such thing as planes leaving "dirt trails" :smile: Worthless to mention that the rumours running some time ago about planes using some weird chemical compound to deliberately leave trails was something which should carry the authors in front of a jury, in my opinion. But every psycho has the right to speak up, nowadays, and is usually given more credit than those competent..
 

Andy K

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I think by 'dirt trails' Q.G. was referring to exhaust pollution from aircraft engines.
 

Lightproof

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There are no (repeat: no) purple sunsets to photograph. No ashy haze. Nothing.
Just clear, blue skies, with the sun beating down on us.
Skies that in fact are cleaner than usual now there are no planes leaving dirt trails behind.

This is true :sad:

My GX680 however is set up to catch some of the promised sunrises...
 
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"Dirt trails"?? Aren't they called contrails in aviation?
Just because the air looks clear from afar doesn't mean it is at all safe for a jetliner to hurtle through — that's what the testing is for, and latest news is that Qantas in Australia has cancelled all fligts to and from London and Europe to the evening of Tuesday. A far more worrying thing is what happens if that volcano's bigger brother blows it's top. I feel sure that somebody, somewhere, is getting a truly magnificent record of this awesome event on film or digital; just have to sit back, wait and see what bobs up in Flickr.
 

Q.G.

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Not to sound patronizing, but this sounds a bit superficial, Q.G.

As a person working in the aviation sector, I can tell you that things aren't black and white like that. The aviation business in general lives with far more stretched economic balance than other industries. Expenses are ENORMOUS. I'm not even saying that a 4 days stop will put everyone out of business, but things aren't simple as you try to state them.

Well, yes they are.

Sure expenses are enormous. So is income. The simple sum, setting days without income against days with, is completely accurate. As is pointing out that a day not flown does not equal a day's income completely lost. People will have to go places, if not today, than tomorrow. All those thousands stranded at Schiphol, for instance, are still waiting to fly to their destination. And your airline isn't going to fly them there for free. Most people who hadn't commenced their journey will be doing so as soon as they can again. So it's not a complete loss, but largely a postponed income.

Not to mention the fact that only a tiny (though busy) air space is closed. KLM, for instance, though no longer flying in north west Europe for a couple of days, is still happily flying elsewhere over the world.

The loss, or postponed income, most airlines now experience is only part of their business.
So my 0.8% was a gross exageration. It's actually far less.


And ash doesn't move in "blocks". There might be "an awfull lot of air in which there is not", but even a tiny bit might turn into glass and occlude the combustion chambers. Do you know how narrow are those ducts? So, maybe you can run 20 times into a volcanic ash cloud without running into serious trouble, but it takes one time to have all the blame on you, without excuses. That's why I also think that those test flights are a bit of a "commercial" boutade. Without specific instrumentation, what are you exactly testing? Is that like "OK, if we don't lose both engines, then flying here is ok?". Sorry, it doesn't work that way :smile:

Yes, that sounds like a grave situation.

But dirt is in the air constantly, in large part thanks to the planes themselves :wink:, and that dirt will do what it does with or without a volcano doing its business somewhere. Checks, maintenance, and all that, have to be performed anyway.
So the question is how much of an extra burden the ash this volcano spread out over Europe would be.

And the thing is that the amount of ash in the air space is neglible in lots of it. Not present in most of it.
It may, for instance, be confined to a layer, with layers below it completely free of it. And if you can't fly at 10K, but can at 5K, you just fly at 5K.
It may also be so dillute that it isn't detectable as an ellevation in pollution levels at all. In which case there is no ellevated risk either.

Well, sorry for the digression, it's just for the pleasure of discussion!

And P.S.: there is no such thing as planes leaving "dirt trails" :smile: Worthless to mention that the rumours running some time ago about planes using some weird chemical compound to deliberately leave trails was something which should carry the authors in front of a jury, in my opinion. But every psycho has the right to speak up, nowadays, and is usually given more credit than those competent..

You perhaps should get out more if you think that dirts trails are but a rumour. :wink:
I live underneath an airtraffic lane, and the air above our heads is criss crossed by brownish exhaust trails. On nice, calm summer days, with no wind, the air slowly fills with the dirt you haven't heard about even though working in the industry.
 

Q.G.

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"Dirt trails"?? Aren't they called contrails in aviation?

No.
Con trails are trails of condensation. Adiabatic compression, expansion, and what not.
Dirt trails are trails of the dirt those engines on those flying machines bellow out.
While con trails ar white, dirt trails are greyish brown, so easy to tell apart.
 

Silence

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As is pointing out that a day not flown does not equal a day's income completely lost. People will have to go places, if not today, than tomorrow. All those thousands stranded at Schiphol, for instance, are still waiting to fly to their destination. And your airline isn't going to fly them there for free.

I too work in the airline industry and you are wrong.

Many people are being refunded for their tickets and choosing other means of transportation (train, bus, boat) for traveling within Europe.

The people who have their flights postponed are staying in hotels paid by the airlines, and eating food also paid by them.

So not only are the airline companies losing passengers, they are also having other expenses that have nothing to do with aviation.
 

Q.G.

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I too work in the airline industry and you are wrong.

Many people are being refunded for their tickets and choosing other means of transportation (train, bus, boat) for traveling within Europe.

The people who have their flights postponed are staying in hotels paid by the airlines, and eating food also paid by them.

So not only are the airline companies losing passengers, they are also having other expenses that have nothing to do with aviation.

Again, too simplistic.

Yes, airlines are losing money (i never said they aren't, have i?)
Partly through having to put people up in hotels or providing alternative means of transport.
But on the other hand they don't spend much money on their planes, sitting on the tarmac doing not much.

All in all, the thing still holds: even if these three days not flying would equate a full loss of three days worth of income (which it doesn't), it's a tiny amount.
Again, don't let the numbers that are presented in the press and elsewhere overwhelm you. (Simplified, granted: ) If they lose, say, $200 millions over these three days, that figure has to be seen against the 362/3 * 200 millions they make over the rest of the year.
So no disaster yet.
 
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