Voigtlander Avus Scopar lens disassembly

[DaveDanger338]

I believe that you should be able to cut down 5x7 film and get 4 sheets from each 5x7. I like the idea of developing with a safe light by inspection. As a rooky at all this so I'm trying to keep it simple at 1st. I'm getting ready to relocate and retire. I will have move time to learn this stuff soon.

 

[Romanko]

I believe that you should be able to cut down 5x7 film and get 4 sheets from each 5x7

You can also get plate holders and make "reduction inserts" for 6x9 cm (nominal size) negatives. You can then cut 120 type film into sheets. The sheets can be loaded into a 120 type reel and developed in a tank. You will need a way to separate the negatives on the reel to prevent them from sticking together or develop one (or two if you have a two-film reel) at a time. I tried this with 70 mm film in 9x12 glass holder using a simple insert made of an aluminium sheet as a base and two sheets of black cardboard. It won't last long but takes only a few minutes to make.

Another option is 65 mm Vision 3 film. See this thread:

Complete Guide to 70mm Film

I've published a new website devoted to 70mm film: www.shoot70mm.com It's been a massive undertaking, but a real labor of love, and includes a history of the format, information on all cameras/backs that take 70mm, information on most common 70mm film stocks, instructions for loading...

www.photrio.com

I am not sure if the film fits standard 6.5x9 sheet film inserts but it most likely will.
Zach has some 65 mm stock (or will get it soon). There are instructions on developing 65 mm film on his site.

 

[Donald Qualls]

not sure if the film fits standard 6.5x9 sheet film inserts

Most likely it'll be 2 mm too wide. Sheet film sizes are approximately 2 mm under the nominal size, which was for glass plates. When film sheaths were created to carry film in the same holders, the thickness of the metal required reducing the size of the film by a couple mm in width and one or two mm in length. Hence 9x12 is 88x119 mm actual film size (with tolerance of plus or minus about a millimeter in each dimension).

Which means 6.5x9 sheet film was 63 mm wide.

You can still buy 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film (two emulsions: FP4+ until the year's custom cut run stock at photo stores runs out and Fomapan/.EDU Ultra 100), and most 6.5x9 cameras that stayed in production long enough had 2x3 film holders or adapter sheaths available, at least in the US. Whether you can find such ninety-some years later is an entirely separate question...

If you can find a non-working 2x3 Grafmatic with good septums, you could use those septums to make 2x3 adapter sheaths to fit a 6.5x9 plate holder...

 

[Romanko]

Which means 6.5x9 sheet film was 63 mm wide.

Donald is right. I found a septum that fits a Voigtländer 6.5 x 9 plate holder. The widest film that it can fit is around 63 mm. 120 type film is too narrow for this septum.

 

[Donald Qualls]

120 type film is too narrow for this septum.

And 65 mm cine film will be too wide.

That said, some folks trim various too-wide formats, making (for instance) 120/220 out of 70 mm or 116/616 out of wide roll surveillance films. I'm not sure it's practical to trim 2 mm off 65 mm cine film, but it should be workable to trim 7 mm off one edge (which should neatly kill the perfs on that side) off 70 mm. Of course, 70 mm isn't much if any easier to come by than 6.5x9 and likely has more emulsion choices only because Ilford cuts some of it at every year's custom cut.

 

[ntenny]

I think Ilford will cut 6.5x9 too (maybe only in FP4+). You used to be able to get some Efke films as well, but it looks like Adox don’t do it.

-NT

 

[Donald Qualls]

I think Ilford will cut either FP4+ or HP5+ during their custom cut, as long as the minimum for an emulsion/format combination is met. Of course, X-ray is another option; you can cut it under red safelight (and develop by inspection the same way).

 

[Romanko]

Another option is to cut 4x5 into two 6.5 x 9 cm sheets. Custom-made inserts for glass plate holders that take sheets cut from type 120 film seem more practical.

 

[JPD]

I took a look at my Skopar 10,5/4,5 and it's the same construction. I put a 130/6,8 Goerz Dagor on the Avus instead.

 

[Romanko]

I put a 130/6,8 Goerz Dagor on the Avus instead.

Was it a 9x12 cm Avus?

 

[JPD]

Was it a 9x12 cm Avus?

No, a 6,5x9. I do have a couple of 9x12 as well, though.

 

[Romanko]

No, a 6,5x9.

130 mm is a long lens for this format. You probably need to extend the bellows quite far especially for closer focus. Did you modify a range scale for this lens or do you focus with the ground glass only?

 

[JPD]

130 mm is a long lens for this format. You probably need to extend the bellows quite far especially for closer focus. Did you modify a range scale for this lens or do you focus with the ground glass only?

The Avus has a double extension bellows so it works fine, and I only use the ground glass. And roll film backs as well as plate/sheet film holders.

 

[DaveDanger338]

I got my rubber lens tool and removed the name ring and removed the lens Easy peasy. Cleaned up all the lens surfaces and it looks great. Now my other issue. The T and B function just fine, but all the shutter speeds sound the same. Fairly fast, maybe a 50th or so. I'd like to open up the shutter and clean I out. I removed the lock ring from the back of the shutter to release the bellows, but the shutter won't come off the front standard. Any ideas. I tried to unscrew it from the standard but a modest amount of force didn't budge it.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I got my rubber lens tool and removed the name ring and removed the lens Easy peasy. Cleaned up all the lens surfaces and it looks great. Now my other issue. The T and B function just fine, but all the shutter speeds sound the same. Fairly fast, maybe a 50th or so. I'd like to open up the shutter and clean I out. I removed the lock ring from the back of the shutter to release the bellows, but the shutter won't come off the front standard. Any ideas. I tried to unscrew it from the standard but a modest amount of force didn't budge it.

Since your question diverts from the first one (about cleaning a lens) I would recommend to start a new thread

 

[DaveDanger338]

Good idea. I actually fixed the shutter without having to disassemble it. I just removed the speed dial and drizzled a little lighter fluid on the cam and pin to free it up. All the speeds started working.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

good work!

 

[Romanko]

I just removed the speed dial and drizzled a little lighter fluid on the cam and pin to free it up. All the speeds started working.

You risk getting oil, grease and gunk from the shutter to the shutter and aperture blades. Unfortunately, there is no short cuts here and the shutter needs to be disassembled and properly cleaned if you intend to use this camera. That said, the trick works short-term and you can now go and take some pictures with your Avus. I am looking forward to seeing the results. Good luck!

 

[DaveDanger338]

I worked the shutter repeatedly and then cleaned the shutter blades and aperture Iris with q-tips and alcohol. I would have used acetone, but the shutter blades appeared to be painted or enameled. I know this is the quick and dirty method, but I can use the camera now. Before it wasn't functional. If it gives me trouble in the future I'll clean it again. I'd rather be using it instead of looking at it on the shelf.

 

[Romanko]

I would have used acetone, but the shutter blades appeared to be painted or enameled.

In some older shutters the blades are made of some sort of bakelite or other compound material. Acetone is guaranteed to ruin them.

I know this is the quick and dirty method, but I can use the camera now. Before it wasn't functional. If it gives me trouble in the future I'll clean it again. I'd rather be using it instead of looking at it on the shelf.

I totally agree here. You did a great job. Enjoy your Avus you put a lot of effort into bringing it back to life.

 

[DaveDanger338]

In some older shutters the blades are made of some sort of bakelite or other compound material. Acetone is guaranteed to ruin them.


I totally agree here. You did a great job. Enjoy your Avus you put a lot of effort into bringing it back to life.

Thanks.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I took a look at my Skopar 10,5/4,5 and it's the same construction.

As far as I'm aware, all Skopar lenses are Tessar-type. Biconvex front element, negative biconcave second (with spacing of these two being one method of focusing, deeper curve toward the aperture), then the aperture stop and shutter, finally a weaker negative cemented pair (less concave side toward the aperture stop) making up the rear group.

The Color Skopar found on some 35 mm Voigtlander cameras might have a different construction, but I think the "color" designation simply refers to more chromatic correction due to improved glass selection between introduction of the Tessar type in the 1890s and the advent of color film in the late 1930s.

 

[JPD]

As far as I'm aware, all Skopar lenses are Tessar-type. Biconvex front element, negative biconcave second (with spacing of these two being one method of focusing, deeper curve toward the aperture), then the aperture stop and shutter, finally a weaker negative cemented pair (less concave side toward the aperture stop) making up the rear group.

I meant the construction of the mount. Many lenses let you unscrew the second element easily from the front component.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Many lenses let you unscrew the second element easily from the front component.

Ah, yes they do. A bezel mounted second element is more common with physically smaller lenses, like the 105 f/6.8 or f/8.8 seen on lower-tier examples.