Voigtlander Avus Scopar lens disassembly

[DaveDanger338]

Hi guys. This is my 1st post. Whenever I searched for camera info this forum would show up, so I joined. My question is, I bought a voigtlander avus that's in really good condition except for haze in the lens. I was able to remove front lens assembly to reach rear lens. But the haze is between the lenses on what appears to be a cemented assembly. Is there a way to disassemble this ? It looks like it might unscrew between the brass threaded section and the black forward piece. I don't want to force it. I'm afraid it's cemented together. The seal must have failed though. Any help would be appreciated. I also need film holders and a focus screen. It came with only a film pack back. I may just put a ground glass in it.

 

[Ian Grant]

The front elements should unscrew.

Ian

 

[Romanko]

Film holders could be tricky as they are generally not interchangeable between different camera makes. Here is a good source of information on film holders:

9x12 Plate holders 1

Because there are so many variations of the holders I've measured & photographed what I currently own. It would be useful if anyone can add further variations and also the cameras they fit. These two fit a Rodenstock 9x12 and an Orion Werks 9x12 details Width 100mm, length 139mm note the...

www.photrio.com

Until you find a proper focusing screen, ground glass in the film pack holder is the way to go. What format is your camera (9x12 or 6.5x9)?

 

[DaveDanger338]

Film holders could be tricky as they are generally not interchangeable between different camera makes. Here is a good source of information on film holders:

9x12 Plate holders 1

Because there are so many variations of the holders I've measured & photographed what I currently own. It would be useful if anyone can add further variations and also the cameras they fit. These two fit a Rodenstock 9x12 and an Orion Werks 9x12 details Width 100mm, length 139mm note the...

www.photrio.com

Until you find a proper focusing screen, ground glass in the film pack holder is the way to go. What format is your camera (9x12 or 6.5x9)?

6.5x9. Surprisingly small camera

 

[DaveDanger338]

The front elements should unscrew.

Ian

The picture is the front element unscrewed from camera. I'm trying to find out if the front lens unsrews from this assembly. There aren't any notches for a spanner to fit. Bare handed it won't budge. I just didn't want to force it if it's not meant to be removed. I wonder if acetone would work on the glue if it's glued together. Anyone out there that has taken this apart?
I'm willing to get serious with it since it's not very useful now. I did read of people using other shutters in the Avus. I have a parts Voigtlander bessa with a Compur Rapid shutter and Scopar lens on its way from Ebay.

 

[DaveDanger338]

The ring with the voigtlander brand and info is threaded in, but doesn't have holes or notches for a spanner. Guess I will get a rubber lens friction tool and see if I can get it loosened that way. Hate to give up on it.

 

[Renato Tonelli]

Don’t give up on it! It’s a fun camera to use. I have the 9x12 with some 9x12 film holders (hard to come by) and a Rada 6x9 Roll film holder which is very handy as I can use any 120 film.

 

[Kino]

Film holders could be tricky as they are generally not interchangeable between different camera makes. Here is a good source of information on film holders:

9x12 Plate holders 1

Because there are so many variations of the holders I've measured & photographed what I currently own. It would be useful if anyone can add further variations and also the cameras they fit. These two fit a Rodenstock 9x12 and an Orion Werks 9x12 details Width 100mm, length 139mm note the...

www.photrio.com

Until you find a proper focusing screen, ground glass in the film pack holder is the way to go. What format is your camera (9x12 or 6.5x9)?

For the 9x12 Avus, I have found the old USSR Lenningrad 9x12 plate holders with film sheaths will work. The only draw back is that the clip that holds the plate holders in the back of the Avus has no place to slide over and capture the holder. Thus, when withdrawing the dark slide, you have to be extra careful to not pull it off the camera body along with the plate holder.

 

[_T_]

If it’s glued there’s not much you can do about it. You can get them apart but you’ll never get them back together properly to the detriment of the image. The haze will be less detrimental than taking the elements apart.

Have you tried the lens and found that the haze degrades the image quality more than you are willing to accept?

 

[DaveDanger338]

I haven't used the camera yet. I just got it and I'm trying to get it up and running. I hope to use it with paper negitives and ortho film. A roll film back is hopefully in my future. I think removing the name ring will remove the front lens. Not having spanner notches just threw me off. I needed to buy a rubber lens tool anyway.

 

[Romanko]

Skopar is a Tessar design.

Tessar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The front element is not cemented and you should be able to disassemble the front lens group.
Acetone is a strong solvent. I would start with a weaker solvent like naphtha.

I needed to buy a rubber lens tool anyway

These are available as rubber door stops from your local hardware shop.

 

[DaveDanger338]

Scopar is a Tessar design.

Tessar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The front element is not cemented and you should be able to disassemble the front lens group.
Acetone is a strong solvent. I would start with a weaker solvent like naphtha.


These are available as rubber door stops from your local hardware shop.

Thanks for the confirmation. I plan to check out my local hardware store for something that might get the job done.

 

[JPD]

I don't have a Skopar near me at the moment, but I think you should be able to unscrew the second element. You are not supposed to unscrew the ring with the lens name on it.

 

[Romanko]

I unscrewed the front lens group from my Anastigmat Skopar. The rear lens appears to be glued into the lens tube. It looks like the only way to disassemble it is to carefully unscrew the nameplate. This would be a very delicate job. I suggest you confirm this before attempting the disassembly.

 

[Romanko]

For the 9x12 Avus, I have found the old USSR Lenningrad 9x12 plate holders with film sheaths will work.

Do you happen to have 6.5 x 9 USSR plate holders from their Tourist or Moskva-3? They might also fit the smaller Avus. Not that they are very common in your part of the world though.

 

[Kino]

Do you happen to have 6.5 x 9 USSR plate holders from their Tourist or Moskva-3? They might also fit the smaller Avus. Not that they are very common in your part of the world though.

No, sorry, I do not. There are several Ebay sellers in Ukraine who seem to specialize in these plate holders; you might contact one of them for more possibilities.

 

[lobitar]

I've taken several front groups apart from 4 inch Skopars, and always by unscrewing the name ring. If it doesn't respont to friction you may have to drill 2 small dents or holes in it. But rarely necessary.

 

[DaveDanger338]

Thanks. I was thinking this was probably the only way. Not sure why JPD warned against it. I was able to buy a couple Kodak 6.5x9 film holders. Now to order some Ortho Litho Arista 3.0 from B&H.

 

[lobitar]

Thanks. I was thinking this was probably the only way. Not sure why JPD warned against it. I was able to buy a couple Kodak 6.5x9 film holders. Now to order some Ortho Litho Arista 3.0 from B&H.

Happy shooting!
Incidentally reminds me I have a recently acquired Avus 9x12 somewhere, that needs to be taken on its maiden tour soon.

 

[JPD]

Thanks. I was thinking this was probably the only way. Not sure why JPD warned against it. I was able to buy a couple Kodak 6.5x9 film holders. Now to order some Ortho Litho Arista 3.0 from B&H.

I didn't warn against it, but the second element often has its own mount that can be unscrewed, and the name ring isn't always possible to unscrew. It's been a while since I dealt with a Skopar and I don't have one around to check.

 

[DaveDanger338]

Ok. Thanks. I will go slow. I think the biggest risk will be not to cross thread the ring putting it back together.

 

[Donald Qualls]

A Skopar is a Tessar type; the two elements forward of the shutter are air spaced; the two behind are cemented.

The frontmost element is usually held by a ring that comes out of the front of the cell; it's usually the one with "Anastigmat-Skopar" on it -- but my 1927 Rollfilmkamera has a pair of small holes drilled into that ring, presumably for someone before I acquired the camera to remove the front element from the front cell and clean the airspace surfaces. This (plus a lens spanner) may be the only sensible way to disassemble that cell, though from my reading I'd think you should try a friction drive (rubber chemist's stopper that exactly fits into the front threads) first. It's a right hand thread, but likely to be corroded in place after 80-90 years. Unlike front element focusing lenses, the Avus focuses with the front standard, so you don't have to worry about anything on reassembly other than to get the ring back in so the frontmost glass can't move (and keep the convex surface forward, of course).

 

[Donald Qualls]

Oh, and if the second element drops out (some are bezel mounted into the cell, others are loose) the deeper concave surface goes toward the shutter.

 

[DaveDanger338]

Thanks so much for the info. I hope I don't have to drill the name ring. I will if I have to. Otherwise the shutter seems to work ok. The slow shutter speeds don't sound slow enough, but the faster ones seem ok. I hope to use paper negitives and ortho sheet film so I can cheaply use sheet film. With the very low ISO of these films I will most likely be using the bulb mode alot.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The slow shutter speeds don't sound slow enough,

This suggests the shutter needs cleaning and (very little) relubrication. The Compur shutters on most of the Avus I've seen aren't difficult to service and have no fly-away parts (though a few screws and springs are quite small and magnification won't come amiss if you aren't nearsighted like I am).

FWIW, Fomapan 100 and .EDU Ultra 100 (same film, different box) are quite inexpensive, if you can find the 6.5x9 format you'll need. Alternatively, and what most folks do with this size plate camera, is a roll film back. The Rada backs apparently fit a broad range of cameras, and are still fairly common on eBay -- and mechanically simple (red window advance, so not complications).