Vivitar Flash Question

[dynachrome]

I decided to collect and even possibly use, the entire Vivitar 283 system. The only piece not here or on the way is the Charge 15. I have the Charge 12/20. The chargers were made for the rarely seen NC-3 Nicad module. One of those is on the way too. I may try to disassemble it and replace the cells. The regular NC-3 is the AA size battery holder for the 283 and 285 units. Can I put NiMh AAs into the NC-3 battery holder and charge them using the Charge 12/20?

 

[xkaes]

I have no idea if a NiCad charger can be used for NiMh batteries. They seem to be pretty specific to specific battery types. That should be easy to find out. Charge 15's are easy to find, and as you know, the NC-3's are not -- but it makes no difference because they were basically unusable. Finding DEAD NC-3's might be easier. You just have to find someone who hasn't thrown them out.

Vivitar canned the Charge 15 FAST because of it all. They actually cared about their reputation.

Good luck.

 

[dynachrome]

I found an NC-3 Nicad pack and it's on its way to me. I expect it to be dead as a door nail. Are new NiCad AAs still being made? I always thought the Charge 15 would cook the battery pack and shorten the life of the cells. Back then I mostly used a Vivitar 292. The NC-2 took about an hour to fully charge and it also had four cells. A spare charged NC-2 was a big help.

 

[BobD]

Are new NiCad AAs still being made?

Yes, they are still made, but I don't know which size you need for your charger and if that specific size is still available.

FWIW, I replaced the NiCads in my old Norelco shaver with NiMh types and it has given me years of trouble free service.

 

[xkaes]

What's wrong with having a Charge 15 and an NC-3 battery -- for the collection -- but using typical AA batteries in your 283? Even if you have a Charge 15 and a ton on NC-3 packs, it's a recipe in frustration to use them -- assuming they actually work.

Just speaking from experience.

 

[dynachrome]

I thought the NC-3 NiCad Battery Pack was a cluster of NiCad cells similar to the older NC-2. It arrived today and is actually a slightly different regular NC-3. It's just a battery holder. There was another flash made with a different battery holder for NiCads. It was the Soligor MK-10A. The older NiCads had a smaller protrusion from the positive end. Just to complete things, I ordered some AA NiCads. They are rated at 2800 mAh so they may take longer to charge. I realize that the mAh ratings for these batteries are not always realistic. From what I remember, the Charge 15 and the later Charge 12/20 were only made to quickly Charge the NiCads for a limited number of shots. I go way back with NiCads. My first flash was a Honeywell Strobonar 100, which took 2 AAs. My father had an Acmelight 500, which came with four NiCad AAs and a charger. I took more pictures so I would charge the AAs overnight and use them, two at a time, in my Strobonar 100. Back then I think the AA NiCads had a capacity of only about 450 mAh. You didn't get that much out of them by charging them overnight but for a kid, it was nice not to have to keep buying disposable AAs. I also have more than one Quantum battery pack for my 283s and 285s. With the LVP-2 and a set of D batteries, I could shoot all day, even of the recycle time would not be as fast as with the Quantum packs.

 

[wiltw]

Per Battery University: " ...a NiCd charger would overcharge NiMH."

 

[dynachrome]

My question was more whether a NiMh charger would work with NiCads but there are now "smart chargers" which are supposed to be able to charge either type properly. I ordered one of those too. In a related matter, I received a Vivitar PPG-1 battery grip/bracket yesterday. It was made to work with the 285/285HV. The set-up was awkward. I attached the bracket to a Nikkormat FT2 but the connecting cord between the PPG-1 and the flash was too short. I fired the flash with the bracket disconnected from the camera. The result? With the flash now bring powered by 8 AA alkaline batteries, the recycle time on manual was reduced to 3 seconds. I will try the set-up with a smaller camera like a Pentax MX to see if the cord reaches.

 

[xkaes]

Are the no extension cords that can be used?

 

[wiltw]

My question was more whether a NiMh charger would work with NiCads but there are now "smart chargers" which are supposed to be able to charge either type properly. I ordered one of those too. In a related matter, I received a Vivitar PPG-1 battery grip/bracket yesterday. It was made to work with the 285/285HV. The set-up was awkward. I attached the bracket to a Nikkormat FT2 but the connecting cord between the PPG-1 and the flash was too short. I fired the flash with the bracket disconnected from the camera. The result? With the flash now bring powered by 8 AA alkaline batteries, the recycle time on manual was reduced to 3 seconds. I will try the set-up with a smaller camera like a Pentax MX to see if the cord reaches.

Also per Battery University, NiMH chargers can charge NiCad batteries just fine.

 

[eli griggs]

Per Battery University: " ...a NiCd charger would overcharge NiMH."

My Nicad/Nihm charger has a switch to throw for for one or the other choices.

I've never seen charger without one.

 

[eli griggs]

If you're shooting these flash units on sets or in studio or on location, consider using 6/12v square rechargeable packs, like the type used for house alarm back-up power cells, with a rapid charger or two.

It's easy enough to take a Vivitar type AA Cell pack and wire it to a coiled phone receiver cord (check out the junk stores) and, if you want, Dremel out a small cord accommodation into the 283/285 sliding door panel.

These can be hung from stands supporting the flash unit or simply lain on the floor with their long coil hanging down.

Quality Nicad AA/AAA/D/C batteries are still being made, so, I suggest you search out some multiband radio stores online, for these.

Good Luck!

 

[wiltw]

My Nicad/Nihm charger has a switch to throw for for one or the other choices.

I've never seen charger without one.

The Battery University comment about acceptability of NiMH charger for NiCad, whle the NICad charger for NiMH battery would overcharge is likely to have been written a long time ago when most folks owned NiCad chargers and NiMH batteries (and dual mode chargers) were a new technology, and owners of NiCad chargers wondered if they would work on the new (back then) NiMH cells. Most charger that I purchased for NiMH cells in the past 20 years simply automatically switched between the battery types, not needing a switch to be put into the appropriate mode by the user.

 

[eli griggs]

The Battery University comment about acceptability of NiMH charger for NiCad, whle the NICad charger for NiMH battery would overcharge is likely to have been written a long time ago when most folks owned NiCad chargers and NiMH batteries (and dual mode chargers) were a new technology, and owners of NiCad chargers wondered if they would work on the new (back then) NiMH cells. Most charger that I purchased for NiMH cells in the past 20 years simply automatically switched between the battery types, not needing a switch to be put into the appropriate mode by the user.

Good to know, my charger is an older one, and I've not needed another so far, but know what to the ok for now.

Cheers.

 

[dynachrome]

Today a Quantum Battery 1 with new cells arrived. It was fully charged and I tried it with a Vivitar 285. The recycle time on manual is 2 seconds. A few years ago I hooked up a battery pack to a Minolta 5400HS flash. Instead of drilling a hole in the battery door, I carefully filed away the material. The flash works well with the battery pack, which uses C cells and the battery door is still usable with AAs. I sent a second Quantum Battery 1 to Promark today for new cells. If I remember to keep the Quantum batteries charged, they should last a while. At some point I will resurrect one of the Quantum units which I have for the Sunpak 522 and similar units.

 

[wiltw]

Today a Quantum Battery 1 with new cells arrived. It was fully charged and I tried it with a Vivitar 285. The recycle time on manual is 2 seconds. A few years ago I hooked up a battery pack to a Minolta 5400HS flash. Instead of drilling a hole in the battery door, I carefully filed away the material. The flash works well with the battery pack, which uses C cells and the battery door is still usable with AAs. I sent a second Quantum Battery 1 to Promark today for new cells. If I remember to keep the Quantum batteries charged, they should last a while. At some point I will resurrect one of the Quantum units which I have for the Sunpak 522 and similar units.

The lead-acid cell in older Quantum packs can last for over a decade. I had a Quantum 2 and a Quantum Turbo from the early 1990's, and changed the cell in both in the early 2000's. I changed the lead acid cell once again a few years ago.

This one I found in a remnants of a business, bought for a song and taken home not functioning, re-celled in the 2000's and sold on the used market in perfect operating condition (you can see full charge status lights). You are right about keeping Quantum lead acid recharged at least twice a year (I forget what Quantum official frequency is).
Unfortunately the newer Quantums (like the Turbo 2x2) use NiMH rather than lead acid, making them a bit more difficult to re-cell.

 

[wiltw]

I found the original user documentation about the Quantum 2 and the Quantum Turbo (both with lead acid cells)...the Quantum 2 says to charge "every 3 - 6 months", while the Turbo says to charge "every 6 months"
A key point is to charge immediately after use, do not simply put it away after use with only a partial charge.

 

[dynachrome]

I will try to keep the SLA cells charged. I sent a second Battery 1 to Promark yesterday for new cells. It will be nice having more than one.

 

[eli griggs]

I found the original user documentation about the Quantum 2 and the Quantum Turbo (both with lead acid cells)...the Quantum 2 says to charge "every 3 - 6 months", while the Turbo says to charge "every 6 months"
A key point is to charge immediately after use, do not simply put it away after use with only a partial charge.

Let it cool completely before recharging and again after the charge is complete, is the advice I received years ago on these and other rechargable batteries.

 

[dynachrome]

I really fooled myself this afternoon. Two boxes arrived. One was marked HEAVY with many stickers. It was an understatement. I was expecting brake parts and I thought the rotors and pads were in the same box. I thought the smaller box contained another Quantum power pack. It didn't. It contained the brake pads. Maybe I'll read the label next time. The rotors are so heavy I will put them in the car separately before I take it in.