Vivian Maier

[CMoore]

The greater question, though, is are we allowed to use/publish/profit from said images without a model release?

Yes.
If you see a "Movie Star"
walking on the street and take their picture, you do not need a release to sell prints of them.
Sports Stars
Race Car drivers
Rock Stars
etc etc
They get shot all the time, put into books and their photos are offered for sale by the photographer.

 

[MattKing]

The greater question, though, is are we allowed to use/publish/profit from said images without a model release?

Whether or not you are allowed to, unless you are a publisher yourself, you may end up needing one to appease those who you are dealing with/depending upon.

 

[DREW WILEY]

In my case, it's not that I don't know how to stealth shoot, but refrain from doing it. I did recently print an exceptional color shot taken on one of those rare occasions I was toting the Nikon with color film in it. There was a little blonde girl sitting in an antique doorway which looked as if it were a movie film set, since all the colors were so remarkably coordinated. But before I took the shot, I first made eye contact with her parents, accepting their smile and nod. I just can't violate people's privacy. Anyway, I've found subjects way more open to be photographed with an obvious 8x10 than a "sneaky" little Nikon.

 

[Arthurwg]

Yes, she's no Bruce Gilden.

Thank god for that.

 

[MarkS]

On the street, in public- no, you have no privacy right. Because you're in public! The laws are fairly clear on this; read through some of the information al asmp.org to find out how things actually work with respect to copyright, privacy, etc.

 

[George Mann]

also being a socialist she had more empathy to the less well off.

An assumption perhaps?

 

[Alex Benjamin]

On the street, in public- no, you have no privacy right. Because you're in public! The laws are fairly clear on this; read through some of the information al asmp.org to find out how things actually work with respect to copyright, privacy, etc.

The greater question, though, is are we allowed to use/publish/profit from said images without a model release?

Should be specified that MarkS's comment is based on US laws regarding image and privacy. In fact, it varies from country to country.

In Quebec, following the Aubry judgment, you cannot published (paper or web), and certainly not profit from, without consent if the person is recognizable, unless the image is newsworthy. Some people argue that this applies only to news papers and photojournalists, but the Supreme court did not make that distinction.

Same in France, where there is a "droit à l'image" (right of image, or personality rights) that doesn't make the distinction between public and private. It is considered that your private life extends to the public sphere — i.e., what you are doing in the pubic sphere is your private business.

In Germany, there are specific circumstances written in law that disallows the taking of pictures themselves, not solely publishing.

In Greece, taking a picture of someone in a public place requires consent.

In the United Arab Emirates, you can go to jail if you publish without consent.

In other words, know the law of the country you're in. I check this page every time I travel, just to make sure.

Personality rights - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MattKing]

Thanks Alex - I intended to make a similar post to yours, but now it isn't necessary.
Although it is a big exception, I would suggest that the US situation is an exception.

 

[warden]

These images by Vivian Maier are brilliant:- Have you ever seen a collection of images better than this?

She was a once in a lifetime talent without a doubt.

 

[CMoore]

She was a once in a lifetime talent without a doubt.

Hear Hear..!!


I would donate 100 bux to facilitate a statue of her, somewhere in............. did she shoot mostly in Chicago.?

If i had her talent, i would throw my talent away

 

[chuckroast]

Hear Hear..!!


I would donate 100 bux to facilitate a statue of her, somewhere in............. did she shoot mostly in Chicago.?

If i had her talent, i would throw my talent away

She lived and worked as a Nanny in the very exclusive northern suburbs of Chicago but shot a lot of her stuff in the city itself.

I'd favor a statue of her as well, but some self-anointed savior of mankind would demand it be torn down for one reason or another ....

 

[cowanw]

The other major factor relates to her gender - how many female street photographers from her era can you think of?
That and her relative isolation from artistic communities.

The trouble is that mostly they were assigned to photograph the kitchen.
Not all just street photographers, or even mainly, but still.

A poorly curated list

Margaret Bourke-White, Hansel Mieth, Marie Hansen, Martha Holmes, Nina Leen, Lisa Larsen, Diane Arbus, Esther Bubley, Helen Levitt, Berenice Abbot, Lisette Model, Jodi Bieber, Mary Ellen Mark, Rebecca Lepkoff, Ruth Orkin, Barbara Morgan, Kathryn Abbe, Frances McLaughlin-Gill, Graciela Iturbide, Jill Freedman
You gotta at least know Hansel Mieth, Helen Levitt, Lisette Model and Ruth Orkin

 

[Sanug]

Thank you very much for sharing this impressive video. It contains many pictures by Vivian Maier that I have not seen before. Incredibly good!

 

[awty]

An assumption perhaps?

He who controls the copyright controls the narrative.
But before Maloof gained control of the copyright with a partnership with the state there was a BBC documentary that had a bit of a different story. Seemed to paint her as a very intelligent, self determined woman with interviews with a lot of people who new her. She spent a lot of her early years in France, her early photography was of around the French village where she lived, she had connections with local photography groups and political groups. Its France people do that. She also travelled extensively through Asia and Europe after her mother died in the late fifties.
That documentary is buried now from legal threats and probably never again see the light of day. Pity because it was very interesting and made way better sense than the nimble minded slightly crazy nanny story.
It was amusing in the BBC documentary when they interviewed the people who actually bought up her lockers and bundled up the contents to sell to Maloof and others. They were asked how much they made and they said $1600 and looked like weren't we the most stupidest people.
Also remember she was still alive when this was happening, was around 80 still living independently, she meticulously kept all her documents and records, made notes about everything, made moving film recordings and audio recordings and yet we are told no one tried to contact her while she was alive. Two years she lived for after her lockers were sold off, no one tried to track her down. Lived continuously in the same neighbourhood for her retired life, film was taken to the same places for processing, lots of people new of her. Blind Freddie would be able to find her.....then a few months after she slipped and bumped her head and died soon after, someone decided to look for her.....

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I really enjoy her work, just as much as I enjoy her story.

 

[DF]

He who controls the copyright controls the narrative.
But before Maloof gained control of the copyright with a partnership with the state there was a BBC documentary that had a bit of a different story. Seemed to paint her as a very intelligent, self determined woman with interviews with a lot of people who new her. She spent a lot of her early years in France, her early photography was of around the French village where she lived, she had connections with local photography groups and political groups. Its France people do that. She also travelled extensively through Asia and Europe after her mother died in the late fifties.
That documentary is buried now from legal threats and probably never again see the light of day. Pity because it was very interesting and made way better sense than the nimble minded slightly crazy nanny story.
It was amusing in the BBC documentary when they interviewed the people who actually bought up her lockers and bundled up the contents to sell to Maloof and others. They were asked how much they made and they said $1600 and looked like weren't we the most stupidest people.
Also remember she was still alive when this was happening, was around 80 still living independently, she meticulously kept all her documents and records, made notes about everything, made moving film recordings and audio recordings and yet we are told no one tried to contact her while she was alive. Two years she lived for after her lockers were sold off, no one tried to track her down. Lived continuously in the same neighbourhood for her retired life, film was taken to the same places for processing, lots of people new of her. Blind Freddie would be able to find her.....then a few months after she slipped and bumped her head and died soon after, someone decided to look for her.....

Yes - this all is quite contrary to everything I knew - that is thought I knew, read, was told, about her.
Now she's even more of a puzzle than before.
O.K. then: Just who was Vivian Maier

 

[Carnie Bob]

Hear Hear..!!


I would donate 100 bux to facilitate a statue of her, somewhere in............. did she shoot mostly in Chicago.?

If i had her talent, i would throw my talent away

Vivian , printed herself and belonged to a camera club of other enthusiasts. She traveled more extensively than most of us. She built a relationship with a french printer and together they produced over 5000 small fibre prints that are quite lovely.( these images are more landscape travel orientated) A significant portion of them were donated by John Maloof to an organization in Chicago Area, but there are still over 3000 prints in private hands.
All of the negatives I have seen are from Chicago, but I have seen the small prints.

 

[CMoore]

Vivian , printed herself and belonged to a camera club of other enthusiasts. She traveled more extensively than most of us. She built a relationship with a french printer and together they produced over 5000 small fibre prints that are quite lovely.( these images are more landscape travel orientated) A significant portion of them were donated by John Maloof to an organization in Chicago Area, but there are still over 3000 prints in private hands.
All of the negatives I have seen are from Chicago, but I have seen the small prints.

That is interesting.
I knew she had done some printing of her stuff while in France, but i had no idea the number was that large..!!!

How long was she there.?
How long would it take to generate 5 Thousand Prints.?

 

[Sirius Glass]

He who controls the copyright controls the narrative.
But before Maloof gained control of the copyright with a partnership with the state there was a BBC documentary that had a bit of a different story. Seemed to paint her as a very intelligent, self determined woman with interviews with a lot of people who new her. She spent a lot of her early years in France, her early photography was of around the French village where she lived, she had connections with local photography groups and political groups. Its France people do that. She also travelled extensively through Asia and Europe after her mother died in the late fifties.
That documentary is buried now from legal threats and probably never again see the light of day. Pity because it was very interesting and made way better sense than the nimble minded slightly crazy nanny story.
It was amusing in the BBC documentary when they interviewed the people who actually bought up her lockers and bundled up the contents to sell to Maloof and others. They were asked how much they made and they said $1600 and looked like weren't we the most stupidest people.
Also remember she was still alive when this was happening, was around 80 still living independently, she meticulously kept all her documents and records, made notes about everything, made moving film recordings and audio recordings and yet we are told no one tried to contact her while she was alive. Two years she lived for after her lockers were sold off, no one tried to track her down. Lived continuously in the same neighbourhood for her retired life, film was taken to the same places for processing, lots of people new of her. Blind Freddie would be able to find her.....then a few months after she slipped and bumped her head and died soon after, someone decided to look for her.....

I did not know any of her French connections, thank you.

 

[CMoore]

Yes - this all is quite contrary to everything I knew - that is thought I knew, read, was told, about her.
Now she's even more of a puzzle than before.
O.K. then: Just who was Vivian Maier

I am not sure.
I suppose that she Is/Was as human, interesting, failed, blessed, cursed, loving, lost as any of us

 

[Carnie Bob]

That is interesting.
I knew she had done some printing of her stuff while in France, but i had no idea the number was that large..!!!

How long was she there.?
How long would it take to generate 5 Thousand Prints.?

I do not know exactly how long she was there, she had this printer in France do the printing and she approved, they are very small prints quite delicate and compelling. These prints were made over years I believe.

 

[CMoore]

I do not know exactly how long she was there, she had this printer in France do the printing and she approved, they are very small prints quite delicate and compelling. These prints were made over years I believe.

10-4.... Thanks

 

[Carnie Bob]

I am not sure.
I suppose that she Is/Was as human, interesting, failed, blessed, cursed, loving, lost as any of us

I think she was a lot like many people we know , photography can get under your skin and you pursue it even when it financially does not make sense. I have been dragging darkroom equipment around with me from building to building for over 40 years, I have made many darkrooms and I find it my safe zone , I do not own a suit and probably never will get one , unless I win the Order of Canada then I would rent one for the day to hang out with the mucky muck elites of Canada. I personally know many photographers that walk a tough road to make their images and would not have it any other way. I believe Vivian was like this and I would have liked to have met her.

 

[Daniela]

He who controls the copyright controls the narrative.
But before Maloof gained control of the copyright with a partnership with the state there was a BBC documentary that had a bit of a different story. Seemed to paint her as a very intelligent, self determined woman with interviews with a lot of people who new her. She spent a lot of her early years in France, her early photography was of around the French village where she lived, she had connections with local photography groups and political groups. Its France people do that. She also travelled extensively through Asia and Europe after her mother died in the late fifties.
That documentary is buried now from legal threats and probably never again see the light of day. Pity because it was very interesting and made way better sense than the nimble minded slightly crazy nanny story.
It was amusing in the BBC documentary when they interviewed the people who actually bought up her lockers and bundled up the contents to sell to Maloof and others. They were asked how much they made and they said $1600 and looked like weren't we the most stupidest people.
Also remember she was still alive when this was happening, was around 80 still living independently, she meticulously kept all her documents and records, made notes about everything, made moving film recordings and audio recordings and yet we are told no one tried to contact her while she was alive. Two years she lived for after her lockers were sold off, no one tried to track her down. Lived continuously in the same neighbourhood for her retired life, film was taken to the same places for processing, lots of people new of her. Blind Freddie would be able to find her.....then a few months after she slipped and bumped her head and died soon after, someone decided to look for her.....

I had never heard any of this!

Vivian , printed herself and belonged to a camera club of other enthusiasts. She traveled more extensively than most of us. She built a relationship with a french printer and together they produced over 5000 small fibre prints that are quite lovely.( these images are more landscape travel orientated) A significant portion of them were donated by John Maloof to an organization in Chicago Area, but there are still over 3000 prints in private hands.
All of the negatives I have seen are from Chicago, but I have seen the small prints.

Thank you for sharing you first-hand experience, what a treat! Feel free to share more!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I think she was a lot like many people we know , photography can get under your skin and you pursue it even when it financially does not make sense. I have been dragging darkroom equipment around with me from building to building for over 40 years, I have made many darkrooms and I find it my safe zone , I do not own a suit and probably never will get one , unless I win the Order of Canada then I would rent one for the day to hang out with the mucky muck elites of Canada. I personally know many photographers that walk a tough road to make their images and would not have it any other way. I believe Vivian was like this and I would have liked to have met her.

I don't have a suit, either. I got as far as a pair of nice dress shoes, but they are still in the box... My niece is getting married this May, and apparently, it's formal attire only. It'll be those dress shoes, jeans, and a nice button up, plaid shirt... At least I'll be sporting a new haircut, and be clean shaven.