Vivian Maier with her Robot

[Bob Carnie]

It's my impression that Vivian Maier took photos mostly for her own 'self-reflective' reasons and she had little interest in public exhibition or recognition. Like many of us here on Photrio she was inherently an observer of events rather than a participant, and she must have enjoyed using her collection of interesting cameras just much as we might. Add to this her peculiar French/Austrian family history with the influence of photographer Jeanne Bertrand on Vivian's childhood sensibilities and it's no surprise that her personal photographic vision was distinctive. Now that the 21st century smartphone camera has encouraged our new social media culture of self-absorption and preening exhibitionism, the naturalistic countenances of Vivian's mid-20th century subjects seem so very fearless and genuine. That kind of open-faced and unprotected authenticity is rare in street shooting today, particularly since so many people now walk around with their gaze obliviously fixed upon the screens of their personal devices. It's no wonder that Maier's photographs are now so highly valued, because in most contemporary Western cultures those old streets are gone forever.

Nice post.. I also think that VM came of age when box cameras and film were new and exciting and capturing scenes with walkabouts was what a lot of people then found interesting and fun, leading to a long term passion.

 

[wyofilm]

I would put myself down as a casual observer of VM's work. I haven't seen the movie about her, nor do I know much about her life. And what little I do know, I have probably gotten wrong. So with blinding ignorance I will continue!

It always strikes me as a bit unfair of how her work was posthumously published. Unless, I'm mistaken she never curated her own work for public viewing, which means we are seeing her photographs without knowing whether of not she even liked them. We might be seeing photographs that she would have scoffed at. (We all have those.) I think this comes out when I see her photographs. Some are really compelling, while many I don't really see the appeal. All in all, this agrees with the idea that someone else decided on her artistic vision. It would be interesting to see her top 25, as chosen by her.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I would put myself down as a casual observer of VM's work. I haven't seen the movie about her, nor do I know much about her life. And what little I do know, I have probably gotten wrong. So with blinding ignorance I will continue!

It always strikes me as a bit unfair of how her work was posthumously published. Unless, I'm mistaken she never curated her own work for public viewing, which means we are seeing her photographs without knowing whether of not she even liked them. We might be seeing photographs that she would have scoffed at. (We all have those.) I think this comes out when I see her photographs. Some are really compelling, while many I don't really see the appeal. All in all, this agrees with the idea that someone else decided on her artistic vision. It would be interesting to see her top 25, as chosen by her.

Interesting points to which I agree.

 

[Pieter12]

I would put myself down as a casual observer of VM's work. I haven't seen the movie about her, nor do I know much about her life. And what little I do know, I have probably gotten wrong. So with blinding ignorance I will continue!

It always strikes me as a bit unfair of how her work was posthumously published. Unless, I'm mistaken she never curated her own work for public viewing, which means we are seeing her photographs without knowing whether of not she even liked them. We might be seeing photographs that she would have scoffed at. (We all have those.) I think this comes out when I see her photographs. Some are really compelling, while many I don't really see the appeal. All in all, this agrees with the idea that someone else decided on her artistic vision. It would be interesting to see her top 25, as chosen by her.

Unfair to whom? She's dead, her estate has granted permission or sold the rights. If she were alive, it would be a real issue. From what I have read, she was not very competent during the last few years of her life. She lost the storage locker with all her negatives, etc. for non-payment, yet uncashed government checks were among her belongings.

 

[CMoore]

Unfair to whom? She's dead, her estate has granted permission or sold the rights. If she were alive, it would be a real issue. From what I have read, she was not very competent during the last few years of her life. She lost the storage locker with all her negatives, etc. for non-payment, yet uncashed government checks were among her belongings.

Yeah, i GUESS i understand the point people are trying to make, but............so what. She will NEVER have a say. Either her Negs get printed and viewed in the manner that the new "owners" choose, or they get tossed into a land-fill.
Which would you prefer.?
To fret over what she might or might not have approved of seems pointless.....worry for worries sake.
If a person is dubious about her exhibitions, i suppose they could just not look at any of her prints.

 

[MattKing]

Unfair doesn't mean wrong - in the circumstances.
It means the sort of unfair that one uses when one says "life is unfair".

 

[Wayne]

I would put myself down as a casual observer of VM's work. I haven't seen the movie about her, nor do I know much about her life. And what little I do know, I have probably gotten wrong. So with blinding ignorance I will continue!

It always strikes me as a bit unfair of how her work was posthumously published. Unless, I'm mistaken she never curated her own work for public viewing, which means we are seeing her photographs without knowing whether of not she even liked them. We might be seeing photographs that she would have scoffed at. (We all have those.) I think this comes out when I see her photographs. Some are really compelling, while many I don't really see the appeal. All in all, this agrees with the idea that someone else decided on her artistic vision. It would be interesting to see her top 25, as chosen by her.

Good points, but like all of us she knew she was going to die someday so she had the same chance that all of have to edit the crud out of her life. Auction houses would be out of business if we all did it though. Thats whats left when we die, ashes and auctions and if there's something you don't want people to see you better get rid of it while you're alive.

 

[awty]

The whole Miss Maier story seems very bizarre and sad. There seems to of been a lot of wheeling and dealing with her pictures while she was still alive and yet no one tried to track her down, couldn't of been too hard. Think there's a lot more to the story that hasnt come out yet.
Wonder what will happen if a closer living relative is found, don't think any one is going to get away with paying a few thousand for the copy rights.

 

[NB23]

Yeah, i GUESS i understand the point people are trying to make, but............so what. She will NEVER have a say. Either her Negs get printed and viewed in the manner that the new "owners" choose, or they get tossed into a land-fill.
Which would you prefer.?
To fret over what she might or might not have approved of seems pointless.....worry for worries sake.
If a person is dubious about her exhibitions, i suppose they could just not look at any of her prints.

They could just put her on ignore. That msgically solves a lot of issues.

 

[wyofilm]

Unfair to whom?

By unfair, I don't mean a slight against her. I mean that her worked is judged not only on its merits, but also against the works of other photographers. In the latter case, they selected those works which they wanted the world to see and kept lesser works in boxes. An unfair match-up.

 

[Sirius Glass]

She enjoyed her work.
I enjoy her work.
Not everyone likes her work or appreciated what she did without the benefit of training or guidance.

 

[Pieter12]

By unfair, I don't mean a slight against her. I mean that her worked is judged not only on its merits, but also against the works of other photographers. In the latter case, they selected those works which they wanted the world to see and kept lesser works in boxes. An unfair match-up.

I am sure the parties that currently hold the rights to her work have edited out the weak shots. After all, it is not in their interest to present a mediocre body of work. Whether those are the same as she would have is unknown. She pretty much did not show any of her work as far as I can tell. I hold that we're better off with the selection we have now than what we might have if she still controlled the work.

 

[wyofilm]

I hold that we're better off with the selection we have now than what we might have if she still controlled the work.

I don't doubt this.

 

[awty]

So you dont get the right of anonymity if your a good photographer?
Think the state of Illinois controls her estate for the moment.....seems a legal mess.

 

[AgX]

So you dont get the right of anonymity if your a good photographer?

It is up to you as photographer. You can try to get published during your lifetime. You can destroy your work. You can make a last will with specified rules to your heirs (the implication of this depends on the very legal system).

 

[removed account4]

this is an interesting poin\ts !
i agree with what some of the other posts have said
about how others have benefitted from her work but i guess that
is what happens in life, ... you die someone finds your "stuff" and is rewarded
for finding your stuff. its like the recent hoard of florence price's work found.
i mean what if they DIDN'T want it found and that is why it was never shown, displayed
or in the case of florence price's work, played... people have reasons for not putting stuff out there
whether it is 2019 or 1940 or 1950 or whatever ...

I am sure the parties that currently hold the rights to her work have edited out the weak shots. After all, it is not in their interest to present a mediocre body of work.

and what if what the curators of her work actually chose the images that VM herself didn't think were her best ?
its easy for people to pick them ...pick their own narrative / make up their own stories about what someone was doing or thinking. makes me wonder if she kept a diary or book where she wrote down what she was thinking
so it wouldn't have been so hard for people to display the best of the best &c

funny thing is i've posted work places before ( even sat in a space i displayed them and evesdropped )
there is a lot of malarky people claim i was thinking or doing or my influences or who i am and what i am about
and they couldn't be further than the truth ... its all reminds me of the scene in annie hall ...
https:/ /www.youtube . com/watch? v=sXJ8tKRlW3E&frags=pl%2Cwn

 

[Bob Carnie]

I would put myself down as a casual observer of VM's work. I haven't seen the movie about her, nor do I know much about her life. And what little I do know, I have probably gotten wrong. So with blinding ignorance I will continue!

It always strikes me as a bit unfair of how her work was posthumously published. Unless, I'm mistaken she never curated her own work for public viewing, which means we are seeing her photographs without knowing whether of not she even liked them. We might be seeing photographs that she would have scoffed at. (We all have those.) I think this comes out when I see her photographs. Some are really compelling, while many I don't really see the appeal. All in all, this agrees with the idea that someone else decided on her artistic vision. It would be interesting to see her top 25, as chosen by her.

Well first off .. Vivian did print her own work, Vivian's collection has a few thousand prints (colour, and Black and White) ... made by her or under her direction.

 

[Bob Carnie]

So much confusion.... Prints made under Vivians Direction by the french printer have been shown at Stephen Bulger Gallery , I have seen them and she picked these images to print.. I am about to travel again to see a collection of vintage prints, so it kind of imply's to me that
Vivian was involved with her work, like any one of a thousand photographers we know... The social system was not in place to protect Nannies with no Pension, no health care, the story still holds true today... I have health care here
in Canada but I am self employed with no indexed pension... If I keep my health and can print my wife and I are ok, if I lose my health then I could lose everything slowly like Vivian did. This is not so uncommon and it surprises me that
people really putting so much spotlight on her deficiencies as a human.

 

[removed account4]

So much confusion.... Prints made under Vivians Direction by the french printer have been shown at Stephen Bulger Gallery , I have seen them and she picked these images to print.. I am about to travel again to see a collection of vintage prints, so it kind of imply's to me that
Vivian was involved with her work, like any one of a thousand photographers we know... The social system was not in place to protect Nannies with no Pension, no health care, the story still holds true today... I have health care here
in Canada but I am self employed with no indexed pension... If I keep my health and can print my wife and I are ok, if I lose my health then I could lose everything slowly like Vivian did. This is not so uncommon and it surprises me that
people really putting so much spotlight on her deficiencies as a human.

Hi Bob
yup, i admit it, i am completely confused !
I hope I didn't imply that I really know nothing at all about her and I had no clue that she had been deeply involved with the printing of her work
when she was still making photographs &c. I haven't really kept up completely with the story ( my-bad ) and was under
the impression ( wrong of course ) that there were just negatives found in a storage locker "or something"
and people found her work and have been presenting it posthumously ... always seems weird to me presenting people's work without their consent.
I heard about Florince Price recently and IDK I would imagine ( maybe wrongly again ? ) that someone who knew her, was related to her&c
would know what she would have wanted to do with found work... or the reasons why it was never shown/presented to anyone.
It is obvious that the world for a woman in North America in the 20s-50s is vastly different than that for their male counterpart
and while opportunities might have presented themselves for men they might not have for women, because there has really never been equal status
even though their work might be or might have been better than any man's work before or after them...

 

[Pieter12]

Ms Maier is gone. Her work lives on. Major and minor works by artists can be reevaluated later according to changing aesthetics. After a while, the original author no longer controls the work--the work stands on its own or by the artist's reputation. The fact that we have so much to see of hers is a minor miracle. Curators and art historians can be glad for that. Many artists destroy works they are unhappy with at the time, many keep every scrap and proof they have ever made.

 

[Bob Carnie]

To be upfront, I have printed Vivian Maier negatives for a major gallery show from her original negatives as well, a private Pt Pd collection of one image.
Before Vivian became a household word to the photo community, one of my assistants a young female photographer, who collects vintage negatives started buying Vivian Maier negatives on line from a very young John Maloof. She bought over 40 original neg's and came to me and my business partner and asked for money to purchase a large grouping of negs and unprocessed neg's from John Maloof. At that time I thought nothing of this and declined to lend the money as I did not have the money... About this time a major curator met John Maloof, came to the conclusion of what he indeed had and at that point all sales of negatives stopped and from that point on the four owners of bunches of negs moved their separate ways, but I can tell you in each and every case once they realized what they had took good care. The 40 negatives of the Ebay woman I have printed proof prints and that is that , no prints that I am aware of have been sold... John Maloofs negs are in care of Howard Greenburg Gallery in New York (one of the worlds best gallerist) The Jeffrey Goldstein collection of negs are in Germany with a large Art Group, and Ron Slaterly who ones probably the most vintage prints is in Chicago and I am not sure what he is doing with the neg's. There also is a young man in Quebec who bought online at the very beginning a whole grouping of home movies that Vivian made..

Thats it thats all - work is in safe hands- Vivian was a normal photographer who had a great eye. I am glad to have had her work grace my hands.
If cook county lawyers had its ways , we would be seeing coffee mugs and Hats for sale.

 

[AgX]

i mean what if they DIDN'T want it found and that is why it was never shown, displayed or played... people have reasons for not putting stuff out there
and what if what the curators of her work actually chose the images that VM herself didn't think were her best ?

As I said above it is to the creator to prevent this. May it be by destroying his work.

 

[warden]

. This is not so uncommon and it surprises me that people really putting so much spotlight on her deficiencies as a human.

Yes, it seems all that is required is to type "Vivian Maier" at the internet and a line forms to speculate, blame, defend or condemn. It's so weird.

 

[macfred]

Vivian did print her own work, Vivian's collection has a few thousand prints (colour, and Black and White) ... made by her or under her direction.

True! Two links with a few of Vivian's vintage prints :

http://gapersblock.com/ac/2012/06/29/opening-vivian-maier-vintage-prints/

https://news.uchicago.edu/story/uchicago-library-receives-gift-vintage-vivian-maier-prints

 

[Bob Carnie]

True! Two links with a few of Vivian's vintage prints :

http://gapersblock.com/ac/2012/06/29/opening-vivian-maier-vintage-prints/

https://news.uchicago.edu/story/uchicago-library-receives-gift-vintage-vivian-maier-prints

Thank you for posting that, I have seen pictures of Vivan and friends... Yes friends.. working in a makeshift darkroom