Visualisation After The Fact

[Andrew O'Neill]

...sometimes happens when my initial visualisation fails. Having to crop an image to match visualisation after the fact, always makes me feel like I failed... even though I'm quite happy with the results.

 

[BrianShaw]

Feelings of failure for cropping are completely unnecessary.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Feelings of failure for cropping are completely unnecessary.

I guess the feelings of failure were from not seeing the image from the get go, rather than from cropping.

 

[BrianShaw]

I guess the feelings of failure were from not seeing the image than from cropping.

That, I completely understand. But these thing happen…

For me, practice makes better… but never perfect.

 

[xkaes]

Ridiculous. I've never made a print that I didn't crop -- a few only slightly, some necessarily (ex., 35mm), and some severely (ex., panoramas).

The subject should determine the format -- not the format of the film, nor the format of the paper, nor the format of the frame.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ridiculous. I've never made a print that I didn't crop -- a few only slightly, some necessarily (ex., 35mm), and some severely (ex., panoramas).

The subject should determine the format -- not the format of the film, nor the format of the paper, nor the format of the frame.

What's ridiculous? Please keep in mind that this is more about having to crop because my visualisation was off. What I ended up with at the end, still fit within chosen format... I just should have used a longer lens. Did you at least see the end of the video?

 

[xkaes]

Do you not have a viewfinder?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Do you not have a viewfinder?

Did you watch the video?

 

[AnselMortensen]

Eschew the Ansel Adams PreVisualization!
Embrace the William Mortensen Post-Visualization!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Eschew the Ansel Adams PreVisualization!
Embrace the William Mortensen Post-Visualization!

Or I could just mesh the two
I'd like to make myself more clear... when I have to crop the crap out of an image to get to the essence of what I was trying to portray, I feel like "I" have failed, not you. I'm not saying that cropping is a bad thing. I've been working hard at photography for 30 years. No matter how experienced we are, we still make mistakes. We still learn.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I find it harder to see compositions through the ground glass with 4x5 large format than I do through viewfinders with medium format or 35mm. But I'll crop any format picture if it makes the final better. Sometimes I miss little crappy things that are on the edge of the frame that need removal.

 

[Vaughn]

Looks great, Andrew! Discovery never ends.
A longer lens might have required a little different perspective (a change of position relative to the tree).

Xkaes -- the needs of photographers differ. I very very rarely crop. As part of my photographic journey, I greatly enjoy and strive to find my usual subject (the light off the landscape) that will fit both my format and the photographic process I will use to make the print. For me, the subject does not stand alone, but works with all other aspects of my photography. If I were to consider one part of my process to be the most important, and the most fun, it would be the 'hunt' (the seeing) for the subject that fits the format I have with me and my printing process. Both Andrew and I use alt processes which encourages full-frame work.

Way back in uni, I got interested in panoramic images. I looked thru my contact sheets as an exercise to 'see' panoramics in my full-frame images. I was rewarded with the image below -- still one of my favorite silver gelatin prints -- taken on 4x5 in 1980.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It is not that FX-55 lost film speed, rather that XTOL provides a small ISO boost. And I prefer the cropped composition. Cropping is not a failure, but a different approach. I prefer to crop before I photograph and even after many decades of doing that, I still find that I have some photographs that need further cropping on the darkroom easel.

 

[awty]

How does someone make a simple picture so complicated to make......that is a special skill.

 

[xkaes]

. I very very rarely crop.

So all of your 4x5 prints are 1:1.25 dimensions -- except the one you showed above? All your 6x6 prints are square, and all your 35mm prints are 1:1.5 dimensions? Etc.

Sounds pretty restrictive to me, but I suppose some of us feel more comfortable in straight-jackets.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Nice Pano Vaughn.

 

[Vaughn]

So all of your 4x5 prints are 1:1.25 dimensions -- except the one you showed above? All your 6x6 prints are square, and all your 35mm prints are 1:1.5 dimensions? Etc.

Sounds pretty restrictive to me, but I suppose some of us feel more comfortable in straight-jackets.

Full negative no matter what the format (but have never used 35mm for personal images). However, I do consider using a modified darkslide to make two 4x10 or two 5.5x14 images on 8x10 and 11x14 respectively, to be 'full frame". All my work in contact printed using alt processes.

Some folks never use color film -- restrictive or not?
Some people never make natural landscape images -- restrictive, or not?
Some folks only use one format -- restrictive or not?

In a world of infinite images, restrictions will never reduce the number of possibilities. Check your own straight jacket for tightness.

Edit in that last sentence (ever to never)

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

So all of your 4x5 prints are 1:1.25 dimensions -- except the one you showed above? All your 6x6 prints are square, and all your 35mm prints are 1:1.5 dimensions? Etc.

Sounds pretty restrictive to me, but I suppose some of us feel more comfortable in straight-jackets.

People who work with large format negatives in Alt. processes, kind of have to work with the negative as is as it's a contact printing process (unless they make digital negatives which I did in the video...but I don't think you bothered to watch it... or they go full on analogue and enlarge/crop onto copy film). If large format felt restrictive, I wouldn't be doing it for the past 30 years. The only restrictive thing maybe is most of the time require a tripod....

 

[Sharktooth]

I'm used to pre-visualizing donuts when I watch your videos. Sometimes, it gets a little messy, and you've got to clean things up later, but it all reaches a good place in the end.

 

[KerrKid]

I feel the same way. When I take a picture, I want it framed exactly as I'm seeing it through the viewfinder. Cropping it means I didn't see the scene properly. There are exceptions, of course. One issue is when the viewfinder doesn't show exactly what's being exposed. Frustrating.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I feel the same way. When I take a picture, I want it framed exactly as I'm seeing it through the viewfinder. Cropping it means I didn't see the scene properly. There are exceptions, of course. One issue is when the viewfinder doesn't show exactly what's being exposed. Frustrating.

Some people shoot a little wider and then crop afterward to avoid those limitations. Most 35mm camera viewfinders don't show 100% of the view, more like 95%, except for pro versions. Wearing eyeglasses may limit the view as well.

 

[xkaes]

People who work with large format negatives in Alt. processes, kind of have to work with the negative as is as it's a contact printing process (unless they make digital negatives which I did in the video...but I don't think you bothered to watch it... or they go full on analogue and enlarge/crop onto copy film). If large format felt restrictive, I wouldn't be doing it for the past 30 years. The only restrictive thing maybe is most of the time require a tripod....

Some ALT processes may have certain "format" restrictions, but not the ones I've done, and as a long-time large format shooter, I use my negatives to the max. Sometimes the prints are square, and sometimes they are panoramic -- usually somewhere in-between, depending on the subject. More often than not, I make more than one print from the same negative using completely different formats. It's amazing how many photos there are lurking inside the same negative. Visualization does not end when you press the shutter release. I put more work into my photos in the darkroom than in the field. For me, that's where visualization really happens.

 

[xkaes]

Some people shoot a little wider and then crop afterward to avoid those limitations. Most 35mm camera viewfinders don't show 100% of the view, more like 95%, except for pro versions. Wearing eyeglasses may limit the view as well.

Better to have too much -- which you can always crop out -- than too little -- which you can never add back in.

 

[slackercrurster]

I would crop most of my photos.
Don't have the luxury or skill of being a Cartier-Bresson.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Some ALT processes may have certain "format" restrictions, but not the ones I've done, and as a long-time large format shooter, I use my negatives to the max. Sometimes the prints are square, and sometimes they are panoramic -- usually somewhere in-between, depending on the subject. More often than not, I make more than one print from the same negative using completely different formats. It's amazing how many photos there are lurking inside the same negative. Visualization does not end when you press the shutter release. I put more work into my photos in the darkroom than in the field. For me, that's where visualization really happens.

Yes, when I want a part of a negative, digital negatives come in really handy. At least we can agree on something. I give my senior photo students a project where they have to find 5 compositions within their negative (on the computer because we just don't have the budget for all that paper). I also do something similar with my 2D drawing students.