Video on the 10 Best 35mm film cameras

Theo Sulphate · Oct 9, 2018

Nikonos V is a reasonable choice. Although it was designed primarily for underwater usage, the standard 35/2.5 W-Nikkor is one of the lenses that can be used normally out of water - and that's what many people do.

Just last week I used my Nikonos V all day in the rain with its 35/2.5 and Tmax 400. It has both manual and aperture priority exposure, TTL metering, and can even hold the shutter open for several seconds until the exposure is correct. I especially like the way the selected and suggested shutter speeds are shown in the viewfinder. Also, the camera is so solid in feel and in use. The muted sound of the shutter is wonderful.

Marco Gilardetti · Oct 10, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
the standard 35/2.5 W-Nikkor is one of the lenses that can be used normally out of water - and that's what many people do.

And that's pretty much about it: all other lenses work underwater only, excepting the nearly-impossible-to-find 80mm which happens to be also pretty much useless, as the camera is guess-focusing only and nobody would do portraits that way. Add to all this the fact that a Nikonos V in decent conditions, without hinges and corners heavily corroded by salted water, is nearly impossible to find at a reasonable price, and there you have an aged, heavily limited, not so pocketable, problematic specialty camera that you definitely don't want to suggest as "best 10 choices" to newbyes.

I would rather tag it as "the niche camera for the man that has them all".

GRHazelton · Oct 10, 2018

Interesting that the Pentax LX was omitted. I own three of them (some of us just can't stop!), and also a Nikon F2 and a Nikon F3 HP, the competitor of the Pentax LX. I prefer the LX over the F3 HP. I find it more user-friendly, and its viewfinder information is superior. Also its nice to have mechanical speeds from 1/70 up without battery power. As always, YMMV.

cooltouch · Oct 10, 2018

I think the most likely reason the LX was omitted is because he was biasing his "Best 10" strongly toward mechanical cameras. I agree with your assessment about the LX, though. Rather than seeing it as a direct competitor to the F3, which it is, more or less, I see it more as a direct competitor to the Canon New F-1 because both have a hybrid shutter. I also find it interesting that he included the New F-1 in his list. Sticking strictly to his stated preferences, I think the original F-1 would have been more appropriate, especially since it was a direct competitor to the Nikon F2, which was included as well.

TheRook · Oct 11, 2018

I'm not so sure I'd place the Pentax K1000 among one of the 10 best 35mm cameras. It is a fairly basic, no frills SLR camera - not all that different than many other cameras from the 1970's. Certainly not a bad camera, but I don't see anything truly outstanding or unique about the design to place it in the top ten.

Les Sarile · Oct 11, 2018

TheRook said:
I'm not so sure I'd place the Pentax K1000 among one of the 10 best 35mm cameras. It is a fairly basic, no frills SLR camera - .

The Leica M-A doesn't even have a built-in meter but yet it made the list.

Theo Sulphate · Oct 11, 2018

"Top 10" lists are often subjective; they usually contain a few cameras that ring the author's bell but which others would exclude.

More useful are lists where specific criteria are listed. Thus, I give my Top 10 list of Top 10 Camera Lists:

1. Top 10 fully mechanical 35mm SLRs.
2. Top 10 compact fixed lens rangefinder cameras.
3. Top 10 interchangeable lens 35mm rangefinder cameras.
4. Top 10 autofocus SLRs.
5. Top 10 medium format cameras.
6. Top 10 cameras with programmed exposure modes.
7. Top 10 best-selling film cameras of all time.
8. Top 10 sub-35mm format cameras.
9. Top 10 large format cameras.
10. Top 10 cameras mentioned on APUG.

Les Sarile · Oct 11, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
"Top 10" lists are often subjective; they usually contain a few cameras that ring the author's bell but which others would exclude.

Always subjective and thus it should be called "My top 10 list" . . .

Swordman · Oct 11, 2018

Once again, many thanks for watching. I didn't realise it would cause quite a stir!

As I mentioned in the video, in reality, I could have filled the list entirely with Nikons and Leicas, but I wanted a bit of variety. I need to defend the K1000, though. Maybe it's just me, but I really, really like the feel of the shutter/mirror slap. That alone makes it a good buy. As for the Canonet ql17, it didn't make the list for the very same reason the Pentax did; it feels horrible (imho).

I won't discus the Moon controversy here, as it's not the right forum, but like Eddie Bravo would say, look into it.

Les Sarile · Oct 11, 2018

Swordman said:
Once again, many thanks for watching. I didn't realise it would cause quite a stir!

You didn't really think you could get away declaring "10 Best 35mm film cameras" and not include all 35mm film cameras that others think are the best did you . . .

BTW, I watched your other vids and found your comment about your film results in your review of the Nikon 35ti interesting. How do you derive your results - do you send it out to scan or scan yourself? Based on the look of the results, I am inclined to think you have it scanned in a minilab at the time of developing and they use an Agfa, Fuji or Noritsu scanner. If so, it is likely the reason you are getting blown out highlights especially when you are comparing the results to digitals.

Swordman · Oct 11, 2018

Les Sarile said:
You didn't really think you could get away declaring "10 Best 35mm film cameras" and not include all 35mm film cameras that others think are the best did you . . .

BTW, I watched your other vids and found your comment about your film results in your review of the Nikon 35ti interesting. How do you derive your results - do you send it out to scan or scan yourself? Based on the look of the results, I am inclined to think you have it scanned in a minilab at the time of developing and they use an Agfa, Fuji or Noritsu scanner. If so, it is likely the reason you are getting blown out highlights especially when you are comparing the results to digitals.

I only use two places to scan film; photofast in Dubai and AG photolab in England. The UK based one has significantly better results, but the Dubai one is ok, too. The latter uses a Noritsu scanner. I've had good results from both labs using a variety of different films and cameras, so I'm inclined to think it's the camera's metering system.

Les Sarile · Oct 12, 2018

Swordman said:
I only use two places to scan film; photofast in Dubai and AG photolab in England. The UK based one has significantly better results, but the Dubai one is ok, too. The latter uses a Noritsu scanner. I've had good results from both labs using a variety of different films and cameras, so I'm inclined to think it's the camera's metering system.

Metering with you pointing in to a bright area - like the sky, tends to underexpose.
You have to understand that cheap scanning is a result of fully automated process and all minilabs do it. But unless you get a second scanning opinion, you may not really know the reason. Here is an example of the same frame of Fuji 100 film automatically scanned on a Noritsu and my own Coolscan and clearly the former is biased towards overexposure. Also the Noritsu operator told me that autolevels and sharpening is applied as part of the "enhancement" which can be turned off if your operator knows that setting. The artifacting created by oversharpening and highly compressed jpegs can be seen pixel peeping on-screen but cannot be seen on print and may compensate for poor focus.

At the end of the day, if you are pleased with the results then that is all that matters.

BTW, most all color and b&w films have an abundance of overexposure latitude especially when compared to digitals that's why I find it interesting to see blownout highlights from film results.

Les Sarile · Oct 12, 2018

Going back on the topic of top 10 35mm film cameras, I don't know if you are aware of the Pentax LX. It was released at the same time as the Nikon F3 and Canon New F-1.

Dubbed the Three Kings, they all have in common interchangeable viewfinders/focusing screens, horizontal travel titanium shutters, aperture priority and built to the highest standards. The LX has many distinguishing features but one in particular sets it apart from all others - past or present including digitals and that is it's metering system. It is the only camera that can aperture priority autoexpose a scene a scene for as long as it takes - all the while monitoring the scene for changes in lighting and adjusting accordingly.

Here is a night scene of the Hoover Dam captured on Kodak Ektar 100. Using aperture pirority, the exposure took over 45minutes.

Theo Sulphate · Oct 12, 2018

Swordman said:
Once again, many thanks for watching. I didn't realise it would cause quite a stir!

... the K1000, though. Maybe it's just me, but I really, really like the feel of the shutter/mirror slap.
...

I enjoyed your video and liked the cameras on your list.

The K1000 mirror-slap, though: to me it sounds a bit cheap - loud and harsh - as if Pentax didn't want to bother with proper dampening. Listen to the sound of a Leicaflex SL or a Leica R series: the sound is just enthralling. It's a certain soft, precise sound. Plain-prism Nikon F's have this sound as well - though it may depend on the mounted lens as well. It seems there are a multitude of factors that affect the sound.

Swordman · Oct 12, 2018

Les Sarile said:
Going back on the topic of top 10 35mm film cameras, I don't know if you are aware of the Pentax LX. It was released at the same time as the Nikon F3 and Canon New F-1.

Dubbed the Three Kings, they all have in common interchangeable viewfinders/focusing screens, horizontal travel titanium shutters, aperture priority and built to the highest standards. The LX has many distinguishing features but one in particular sets it apart from all others - past or present including digitals and that is it's metering system. It is the only camera that can aperture priority autoexpose a scene a scene for as long as it takes - all the while monitoring the scene for changes in lighting and adjusting accordingly.

Here is a night scene of the Hoover Dam captured on Kodak Ektar 100. Using aperture pirority, the exposure took over 45minutes.

Hi Les, yes I was aware of the Pentax LX, but I decided on the Canon instead, if only so that I could have a Canon on the list. There isn't much to choose between the two.

Swordman · Oct 12, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
I enjoyed your video and liked the cameras on your list.

The K1000 mirror-slap, though: to me it sounds a bit cheap - loud and harsh - as if Pentax didn't want to bother with proper dampening. Listen to the sound of a Leicaflex SL or a Leica R series: the sound is just enthralling. It's a certain soft, precise sound. Plain-prism Nikon F's have this sound as well - though it may depend on the mounted lens as well. It seems there are a multitude of factors that affect the sound.

I'll have to try them out at some stage. I've only ever shot a couple of frames on a digital Leica M and I've played with a Leica M3. I've put a restriction on myself not to buy any new cameras until I save up for the M-A!

klownshed · Oct 12, 2018

Les Sarile said:
It is the only camera that can aperture priority autoexpose a scene a scene for as long as it takes

I think the OM-2 was the first to do this. It measures the light coming off the film plane during the exposure. The Pentaxes had much more in common with Olympus with regards to their design philosophy than they had to CaNikon.

Whatever your preference, the OM-2 and LX were both fine cameras. The LX definitely took the size and design philosophy of the OM and added Nikon/Canon style weather sealing, etc. Best of both worlds?

Unfortunately for Pentax and Olympus, the world of plastic bodied AF monsters was soon to spoil their party.

cooltouch · Oct 12, 2018

klownshed said:
I think the OM-2 was the first to do this. It measures the light coming off the film plane during the exposure. The Pentaxes had much more in common with Olympus with regards to their design philosophy than they had to CaNikon.

This is true. I recall reading an article about the OM-2's long exposure capability in a copy of Modern Photography back in the mid-80s. It's worth noting however that this capability is limited to the original OM-2. Oly changed the chip in the OM-2n and it lost the ultra-long exposure capability of the original OM-2.

Les Sarile · Oct 12, 2018

klownshed said:
I think the OM-2 was the first to do this. It measures the light coming off the film plane during the exposure. The Pentaxes had much more in common with Olympus with regards to their design philosophy than they had to CaNikon.

Whatever your preference, the OM-2 and LX were both fine cameras. The LX definitely took the size and design philosophy of the OM and added Nikon/Canon style weather sealing, etc. Best of both worlds?

Olympus made significant contributions with the size of the OM1 and off the film metering and TTL flash with the OM2. I am not sure that if they had not done this if Pentax would have made the MX or the LX.

BTW, the Pentax LX was the first weather sealed camera and not either Canon or Nikon. In fact it is rain tested at the factory. For it's first interchangeable viewfinder 35mm camera, Pentax gave it more options then any other camera ever made.

Another thing I like about Pentax cameras in general, their viewfinders offer the highest magnifications and most certainly the LX has that but so does the MX.

Les Sarile · Oct 12, 2018

cooltouch said:
This is true. I recall reading an article about the OM-2's long exposure capability in a copy of Modern Photography back in the mid-80s. It's worth noting however that this capability is limited to the original OM-2. Oly changed the chip in the OM-2n and it lost the ultra-long exposure capability of the original OM-2.

Joh has a good writeup about the OM2's metering and states that the OM2 can go for as long as 19 minutes but only with specific setup -> OM2 Tech page http://zuiko.com/web_5__20150924_032.htm

I have tested both of my LX's to go for hours and repeatable under controlled lighting.
Of course one of the biggest problems with very long exposures with the LX is that it doesn't tell you how long it was going to keep the shutter open so you have to check on it ever so often to see if the exposure is done. Fortunately, someone brought to my attention that you can monitor the sync port for this - closes when the shutter is fired and opens after the exposure is completed. So I devised an LED and battery connected to it to let me know the status of the exposure.

MattKing · Oct 12, 2018

As understand it, the rationale behind the change from the OM-2 to the OM-2n was at least partially due to the problems encountered when the cameras were in a bag or case and the shutter was accidentally released.
If you release the shutter on an OM-2 or an OM-2n, the meter turns on and controls the exposure even if the camera is turned off.

film_man · Oct 13, 2018

Marco Gilardetti said:
And that's pretty much about it: all other lenses work underwater only, excepting the nearly-impossible-to-find 80mm which happens to be also pretty much useless, as the camera is guess-focusing only and nobody would do portraits that way. Add to all this the fact that a Nikonos V in decent conditions, without hinges and corners heavily corroded by salted water, is nearly impossible to find at a reasonable price, and there you have an aged, heavily limited, not so pocketable, problematic specialty camera that you definitely don't want to suggest as "best 10 choices" to newbyes.

I would rather tag it as "the niche camera for the man that has them all".

I have bought and sold lots of cameras in many formats over the last few years, the only one that was never under any consideration for a sell and the one that will be the last to go (if it gets to that) is my Nikonos V.

BTW, plenty of NikV bodies around for under $300, drop another $150 to Southern Nikonos for a service and you're good to go.

mooseontheloose · Oct 15, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
"Top 10" lists are often subjective; they usually contain a few cameras that ring the author's bell but which others would exclude.

More useful are lists where specific criteria are listed. Thus, I give my Top 10 list of Top 10 Camera Lists:

1. Top 10 fully mechanical 35mm SLRs.
2. Top 10 compact fixed lens rangefinder cameras.
3. Top 10 interchangeable lens 35mm rangefinder cameras.
4. Top 10 autofocus SLRs.
5. Top 10 medium format cameras.
6. Top 10 cameras with programmed exposure modes.
7. Top 10 best-selling film cameras of all time.
8. Top 10 sub-35mm format cameras.
9. Top 10 large format cameras.
10. Top 10 cameras mentioned on APUG.

How about a few more?

11. Top 10 niche cameras
12. Top 10 “what were they thinking” cameras
13. Top 10 starter (35mm) cameras
14. Top 10 cameras with the best/most interesting design
15. Top 10 Plastic/toy cameras

Marco Gilardetti · Oct 15, 2018

film_man said:
I have bought and sold lots of cameras in many formats over the last few years, the only one that was never under any consideration for a sell and the one that will be the last to go (if it gets to that) is my Nikonos V.

BTW, plenty of NikV bodies around for under $300, drop another $150 to Southern Nikonos for a service and you're good to go.

I appreciate that you personally like the camera but once again it's not a good reason to suggest it to a beginner while every Olympus OM is kept off the list.

Theo Sulphate · Oct 15, 2018

Olympus OM cameras are definitely worthy of high praise.

The problem with Top Ten Cameras lists is that there are at least 25 cameras that belong on the list.

Video on the 10 Best 35mm film cameras

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