VERY OLD Xtol stock

[mongo141]

While I was snooping around in the very bottom, back of the fridge in which I store film, chemicals, etc.etc in an unheated garage, I came across some VERY old Xtol stock. The date on bottles was 09/19/05, yes 2005. I had made this stuff up for a long since forgotten project and never used or opened any of it. It was stored in brown glass bottles that were well capped and no air space was allowed before capping. I was going to dump it and then got a bright (dumb?) Idea so I quick went out and shot a short roll of APX 100 and processed the film @ 1+1, 8min @ 22C using 30 sec. of inversions the first min. and 6 every min. there after, water stop and TF 4 fix. The neg's were perfect, I could not tell the difference between those and and the same film processed in fresh Xtol made up last week. So much for the doom and gloom I have read about the stuff going away in less than a year. The temp in that garage has varied from about 110f to around 32f since I mixed the stuff ( and then forgot about it) and the fridge is an Old GE built in about 1954. YMMV

 

[bdial]

We should make this a sticky so that it's easy to reference the next time someone asks how to deal with Xtol's (supposed) tendancy to go bad.

 

[Venchka]

Good news! The secrets of your success: Dark colored glass and no air. Is the fridge running? Another myth busted! I keep my Xtol in a wine in a box bladder in my fridge. I was told not to do that because one of the chemicals would drop out of solution. So far, so good since August, 2008.

 

[mongo141]

I may just leave it there and just go do a clip test every few years, find out how long it will REALLY last.

 

[mongo141]

Yep the old machines still runs, I think my father put a new compressor in it in about 1958, Good old machine.

 

[sun of sand]

Xtol doesn't suffer from SDDS
Kodak cured it

 

[removed account4]

Xtol doesn't suffer from SDDS
Kodak cured it

did they do anything to cure sudden death syndrome besides
NOT suggesting extreme dilutions like "1:10 for contact printing" (like they used to) ?

 

[david b]

I would toss it. Not worth it.

 

[wogster]

did they do anything to cure sudden death syndrome besides
NOT suggesting extreme dilutions like "1:10 for contact printing" (like they used to) ?

IIRC the problem was some packaging issues with some 1L packages of Xtol at one point, so Kodak dropped that size, but the rumours of it suffering SDDS persist. I don't think I have ever used Xtol, back when I did a lot of film developing I used D76, then switched to ID-11 when I converted to Ilford in the late 1970's. Now debating developers again, I have some 2 year old DDX concentrate I was going to give up on, now reading this, I am not so sure, need to test it before tossing it.

 

[Domin]

Apart from sudden death issue which I hear was solved before I even stated using xtol, my experience suggests that xtol is vulnerable to oxidation and kind of container really matters.

Some of my xtol, not even stock but 2x concentrate went bad after only 10 months tightly in capped bottle with no air, which was not opened during these months. The problem was the bottle - one sold as photo chemistry but in fact unlined HDPE crap. I think that somtime before ID11 survived quite long in the same bottle.

Hovever I kept some of xtol from same batch in black pvc bottle, opended this one two or three times to use it and filled it with lighter gas. That one was ok.

From what I've read on net HDPE has quite a gas permeability while Glass, PVC at PET is ok. Now I keep my xtol in 250ml and 300ml glass bottles with metal caps they sell fruit juice here. It seems to me that what's good for food and drinks is good for developers. They do use inert gases in food industry.

 

[Chazzy]

Apart from sudden death issue which I hear was solved before I even stated using xtol, my experience suggests that xtol is vulnerable to oxidation and kind of container really matters.

Some of my xtol, not even stock but 2x concentrate went bad after only 10 months tightly in capped bottle with no air, which was not opened during these months. The problem was the bottle - one sold as photo chemistry but in fact unlined HDPE crap. I think that somtime before ID11 survived quite long in the same bottle.

Hovever I kept some of xtol from same batch in black pvc bottle, opended this one two or three times to use it and filled it with lighter gas. That one was ok.

From what I've read on net HDPE has quite a gas permeability while Glass, PVC at PET is ok. Now I keep my xtol in 250ml and 300ml glass bottles with metal caps they sell fruit juice here. It seems to me that what's good for food and drinks is good for developers. They do use inert gases in food industry.

Well, now you have me wondering whether the Datatainer bottles that I use (very common in the USA) are made of the right kind of plastic.

 

[Domin]

Can't help with that one - my bad bottle was from Hama.

On the other hand most liquid developers are sold in HDPE. I don't know if they are lined or just ok for the concentration and expiry date? I've seen PE/EVOH (oxygen barrier lining) on some but most are just marked PE.

 

[wogster]

Well, now you have me wondering whether the Datatainer bottles that I use (very common in the USA) are made of the right kind of plastic.

If they are fairly recent they should have a little triangle on the bottom with a 2 in it, PET will have the same kind of marking, but a 1 in the triangle. LDPE has a 4 in the triangle.

What is strange is sometimes the container will be made of the right stuff, and then use a cap that isn't. Brown glas bottles with rubber stoppers may be old fashioned, but they do work.

 

[brianmquinn]

If they are fairly recent they should have a little triangle on the bottom with a 2 in it, PET will have the same kind of marking, but a 1 in the triangle. LDPE has a 4 in the triangle.

What is strange is sometimes the container will be made of the right stuff, and then use a cap that isn't. Brown glas bottles with rubber stoppers may be old fashioned, but they do work.

Here is a cut and paste of two posts I made to Photo Net last summer.

(P.S.) I still am setting aside a bottles of Xtol 2x stock and testing it to see if it is still good. I have never had a failure even with 3 year old 2x stock stored as described below.

Brian Quinn , Jul 27, 2008; 11:25 a.m.
I make Xtol up at 2x concentration and store it in 11oz. (330ml) Perrier water bottles. I tried to store in my darkroom fridge and it did crystallize but at room temperature it was fine (No Crystals). I open a bottle (and) dilute it 1:1 and that gives me 660ml of 1x developer for my tank. That way I am always using developer from a full bottle. I have used it close to 2 years (now over 3 years) after mixing it up and all is fine.

Brian Quinn , Jul 29, 2008; 10:38 a.m
One thing I forgot to point out in my earlier post is a key thing about long term storage of chemicals is to USE GLASS BOTTLES WITH METAL CAPS.

I little known fact is that plastic bottles will let oxygen in even if they are well capped. The oxygen will diffuse through the plastic (even a plastic cap) and oxidize the contents of the bottle. This is the reason that beer is sold in glass bottles with metal caps. Just a little oxidation of the beer ruins the taste. Beer that is sold in plastic bottles at sporting events has a very short shelf life. This is not usually a problem at a game as all the beer goes away very fast.

 

[wogster]

Here is a cut and paste of two posts I made to Photo Net last summer.

(P.S.) I still am setting aside a bottles of Xtol 2x stock and testing it to see if it is still good. I have never had a failure even with 3 year old 2x stock stored as described below.

Brian Quinn , Jul 29, 2008; 10:38 a.m
One thing I forgot to point out in my earlier post is a key thing about long term storage of chemicals is to USE GLASS BOTTLES WITH METAL CAPS.

I little known fact is that plastic bottles will let oxygen in even if they are well capped. The oxygen will diffuse through the plastic (even a plastic cap) and oxidize the contents of the bottle. This is the reason that beer is sold in glass bottles with metal caps. Just a little oxidation of the beer ruins the taste. Beer that is sold in plastic bottles at sporting events has a very short shelf life. This is not usually a problem at a game as all the beer goes away very fast.

Metal caps should have a waxed cardboard insert inside, this allows for any slight imperfections in the top of the glass, this could also be plastic, it can also be rubber or leather although waxed cardboard seems to be the most common, if missing a piece cut from a milk carton can be used as a substitute. I have never seen beer in plastic bottles, sporting events here in Canada use either standard glass bottles or more commonly cans poured into a plastic cup for consumption....
I've never done it myself, I think $8 for a bottle of beer is a little much, even if the local team is down 10 runs to 1.....:rolleyes:

 

[Chazzy]

If they are fairly recent they should have a little triangle on the bottom with a 2 in it, PET will have the same kind of marking, but a 1 in the triangle. LDPE has a 4 in the triangle.

Thanks for telling me where to look. My bottles say "HDPE." That's the bad stuff, isn't it? But I've had no problems with my Xtol, and I like the design of the Datatainer bottles.

 

[wogster]

Thanks for telling me where to look. My bottles say "HDPE." That's the bad stuff, isn't it? But I've had no problems with my Xtol, and I like the design of the Datatainer bottles.

There not bad, they just allow certain gases like oxygen pass through, since oxygen causes developers to age quicker they should NOT be used for long term developer storage. Dark brown glass bottles with lined metal caps are best, you can use marbles or glass/plastic beads from a craft store to make up the volume to a full bottle. The bottles you have are fine for other chemicals which are not affected by oxygen as much.