Versalab Print Washer

[david b]

So in my search for an 11x14 print washer, I checked craigslist and came across a versalab print washer locally.

I picked it up yesterday and it seems to be a very efficient and well designed print washer. Living in the desert where water consumption is always a concern, this seems to be a decent answer to the problem.

I was able to get it for about a 1/3 of the retail price so I am pleased.

Anything I should know about this washer?

 

[Konical]

Good Afternoon, David,

Most of what you need to know is obvious just by looking. Congratulations on getting one at a good price, even though new ones are not particularly expensive. Just be sure that you place the washer on an adequate support; it will weigh a lot when filled. Water flow doesn't need to be very agressive at all, just enough for continuous change. If you plan ahead and wash a number of prints simultaneously, water use will be fairly economical on a per-print basis. I've had my Versalab for several years, use it occasionally, and have had no complaints.

Konical

 

[Lopaka]

Same here - just one thing to add: the tub has to be pretty level for the siphon to work properly. Weighs about 100 lbs when filled. If you don't have the complete instructions with it, you can down load a pdf from the Versalab site:

http://www.versalab.com/server/photo/products/washer1.htm

Good luck

Bob

 

[MurrayMinchin]

$330.00 for a 16x20 print washer?

THANKS! (That puppy just got bookmarked )

Murray

 

[David Brown]

... Just be sure that you place the washer on an adequate support; it will weigh a lot when filled. Water flow doesn't need to be very agressive at all, just enough for continuous change. ... I've had my Versalab for several years, use it occasionally, and have had no complaints.

Ditto. I have the 11x14 also.

 

[Lee Shively]

I agree with all the others. Great washer.

 

[jovo]

Two things.

One...If you have trouble getting a flow rate that stays consistant, try making the siphon tube a bit shorter. That dramatically improved the way mine worked.

Two...Don't worry about the fact that the prints will seem to want to stick to the plastic separaters. Once the tank is full, and the jets are reasonably well centered in each compartment, the prints will naturally float away from the walls and wash evenly.

 

[Jeremy]

David,

i just want to say thanks as I emailed Donny Burk for the 16x20 you passed up over on the LF forum Now I'll be able to wash my 8x10 pd/pt prints w/o resorting to trays!

 

[david b]

No problem Jeremy. Enjoy it. I am quite pleased with mine and will be using it tomorrow.

 

[Amund]

Slight hijack: Can you use a printwasher like this to wash 8x10 negs too?

 

[grahamp]

I have my 11x14 model on a shelf and draining into an adjacent sink. Do make sure that the siphon is running correctly as it is easy to pump more water into this device that the over flow will handle. It takes time to fill, but don't be tempted to leave it before you have the flow rate throttled down to the working level

I see no reason why it could not be used to wash film, though I have nothing of that size. One would need to take care to avoid scratching the film. At least the Versalab has flexible partitions so it is easy to reach in for small or delicate items.


[edit: typos]

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

VersaLab print washer problem

I know that I'm digging up a nearly three year old thread, but I've come across a real problem.

My prints do stick to the side walls, and when the jet is going at the recommended rate of 0.25 to 0.8gpm (or higher, up to 1gpm), the prints still cling to the walls. If I don't tone the prints when they come out, they look fine, but I'm convinced they are still contaminated, because the bleach doesn't work evenly on the prints after anywhere from 2-10 hours of washing. And then they become discolored where the toner worked unevenly. And it's right where the print kisses the washer wall where the inconsistency is.
Ilford MGIV and MGWT paper. I mostly have trouble with 8x10 size paper, not so much 11x14 or 5x7.

Any ideas? I'm going to try contacting the manufacturer to see if they have any modifications that can be done.
John, how did the performance of yours improve by cutting the siphon hose shorter? And how much?

- Thomas

Two things.

One...If you have trouble getting a flow rate that stays consistant, try making the siphon tube a bit shorter. That dramatically improved the way mine worked.

Two...Don't worry about the fact that the prints will seem to want to stick to the plastic separaters. Once the tank is full, and the jets are reasonably well centered in each compartment, the prints will naturally float away from the walls and wash evenly.

 

[Peter De Smidt]

How about every now and then taking a print out, rotating it in some way, and then putting it back? Another option would be to replace the plastic sheets in the holder with anti-pet type vinyl window screening. I'd still recommend turning the prints occasionally. Another option would be to put little dots of silicone on the plastic sheets.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for chiming in. I do rotate the prints about once every 30 minutes when I remember to. It makes no difference on the end result.

I had thought about fiberglass window screen for sure, but the plastic 'walls' within the washer is a part of the structure itself so I can't remove them.

I had also thought of creating some sort of 'stand off' so that the print 'bow' wouldn't lie all flat against the wall, but was a little bit nervous about that, because silicone in itself could contaminate the print (I've seen it happen to a car paint shop, silicone from a kitchen 200 feet down the duct work run, no kidding).

 

[Peter De Smidt]

Silicone lubricant is certainly a problem for wood finishing or painting, but I doubt that cured silicone caulk would be a problem. It will initially have some acetic acid in it, but that'll go away when it's cured. You can buy stuff that is safe for food contact, and so I'm not sure how it could harm a print.

You could also use little dabs of epoxy, assuming it will stick to the plastic dividers.

Another option would be to put window screening in the slots. Use two sheets. You might have to use stainless steel clips to hold the top two corners. (I use clips from Radio Shack test leads to dry my negatives on a line. I've used them for years, and they haven't rusted, nor have they ever dropped a negative.) Put the print between the sheets.

Another option would be to wind heavy fishing line around the plastic sheets.

Anyway, you could always do what I did: make a new insert. I used stainless steel bar, ss threaded rod, acrylic tube, rigid acrylic strips and fishing line to make a 4x5 film washing insert for my Versalab. It's not hard, but it is a little tedious to make such a thing. But you only have to do it once.

All that said, I've had my Versalab washer for about a decade. I tone all of my prints in selenium and sulphide, just enough sulfide to give added permanence, and I've not had any problems with too much fixer being in the prints. (It true that a problem could show up way down the line.) When I got the washer, I did run some fixer tests, and I didn't have any problems. I do use a wash aid, and all of my FB prints wash for at least an hour after toning.

 

[grahamp]

The angle of the jets can affect the amount of 'stick' for prints. Surface flow rate is not that significant, it is the continuous dilution and replacement that removes the fixer. I often leave mine standing accumulating prints, and flush it periodically.

The overflow is a touch small, but there is nothing to stop you drilling more drains and adding more drain tubes.

I have washed 2 x 20x16 prints in my 11x14 tank. I have a couple of sheets of thin acrylic in U shapes. The 16 inch dimension just fits the length of the tank, and the U is over 20 inches. I need to put some holes in the sheets to improve flow over the back.

 

[Peter De Smidt]

I do basically what Graham does. I don't run the washer continuously. When I take a print out of the fixer, I place it on a plate glass viewing surface, the bottom of which is in my sink. I use a house to wash the print on both sides to get the most of the the fixer off, and then into the washer. After I've made all of the print, I set up my toning trays. I take out the prints and place in the second fixing bath. (it's a good idea to use two bath fixing). They then go directly into the selenium toner. When toned, I move them into a wash-aid and then back into the washer. I turn the washer on and agitate the prints now and again for about an hour. After that, I place the prints in a clean tray with distilled water, with occasional shuffling, for about 15 minutes. (I don't squeegee.) The prints are then drained and laid face down on clean screening.

 

[cowanw]

Are there holes at the bottom to fill with? Might they be a bit blocked with hard water scale? Would some CLR or water mark dissolver help the flow of water out of the holes?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Peter, my method is very similar to yours.

Print, then I have a holding tray where a single print rests until I'm done with the next one. Then I move the one that's in the holding tray (big 16x20 filled to the brim) into the washer and put the new one in the holding tray. I always use fresh fixer, so I am in belief that I don't have to fix twice.
I then wash the prints for about two hours and proceed with a process of bleaching in highly dilute ferricyanide + bromide, wash thoroughly, sepia warm toner, wash thoroughly, selenium toner, and then the prints go through another washing sequence of about two hours.

I haven't changed anything in my process, but one thing to note is that I've started to use more matte surface paper. Glossy paper does not exhibit the same problem. But the problem is of late, the last three printing sessions, basically, which coincide with using almost exclusively matte surface paper (Ilford MGWT semimatte, Ilford MGIV matte, and Foma Fomabrom Variant 112 matte).

One day it's fine, and another when using matte surface it's not. But it really can't be that simple, unless the matte surface behaves differently in the washer.

I will test it though, and do some glossy prints.

 

[Peter De Smidt]

Hi Thomas,

Sorry, I didn't mention that I only print with Ilford MG FB glossy. And you are doing a bunch more toning than I am. Probably building a special divider is your best option. I can take a picture of the one I made and send it to you, and I'll go down an look at the washer again to get a better idea.

Another option would be to use hypo eliminator. Back in the early 1990s, that's what wilhelm advocated in his book on preserving photographs. He said that while it's true that a little residual fixer in the print will promote longevity, selenium toning will protect it even more. Since I was selenium toning, and I didn't have a good washer back then, I used HE. All of these prints are fine 20 years on. It's fairly cheap and easy to make. It's made with ammonia, hydrogen peroxide and water. If you need the recipe, I can get it.

 

[jovo]

Geez, Thomas, I'm sorry to hear about the prints sticking. I've not used matte paper, so I can't offer any observations about that, but perhaps the direction of flow into the tub can be adjusted. The fill tube has holes, as you know, that can be slightly adjusted up, down or straight on. Mine are adjusted to point a little bit downward, and across. Even so, I rarely run the water until the prints are all in the tank. I just pull the black conical stopper to keep the tank from draining, but the prints don't stick even without the water running.

Can you explain the problem to Versalab (I don't even know if they're still making the units)?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Peter, thanks for your explanation. I am open to all kinds of suggestion, so I'll keep your generous offer of getting the recipe for the hypo eliminator handy. Thanks!

John, I will send an email to VersaLab to see if it's something they've run into in the past or not. I drained the tank yesterday and aim to look closer at it tomorrow when I've got more time.
I'll be very interested in hearing what the manufacturers say about all this. Needless to say it's rather frustrating to not know whether all of my previous prints washed with this device are good or not. Especially with regard to the art work I've sold!

Thanks for your helpful suggestion!

 

[rbultman]

Thomas, I'm curious if you ever solved the problem with your print washer and, if so, how? I'm thinking of getting one and want to make sure I have my eyes open.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[outwest]

FYI, I once asked the maker about how to set the flow rate and he said it will sing when it is right.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

No, I never did. I got so frustrated with it I stopped using it and went back to tray siphon and tray washing. No more problems.

I don't want to be giving the impression that VersaLab is a poor manufacturer. But my print washer from them does not work as intended. I know others who have one and say theirs are fine. Go figure!

But at least now I have prints that are totally clean, even though I end up using way more water.