Verichrome Pan how to?

[krisb1981]

I just got a lot of some old brownies and one of them had roll of exposed (7 frames) Verichrome 116 film. Now, I dont know how long this thing has been sitting in there, but it still bears old Kodak Logo. I want to develop it, but I dont know if I should compensate for the age, note that it most likley has not been stored in cooled dry place. I want to use Rodinal since that is what I have on hand right now. Any suggestions as what developing time I could shoot for?
Thank you

 

[hacked - sepiareverb]

HC-110b works well on old Verichrome Pan. Keep the developer cool and follow the suggested times.

 

[StoneNYC]

Agree with Sepia, I wouldn't use Rodinal as it will not be good at subduing the fogging...

HC-110(B) or Ilfsol 3 as developers...

Is it Verichrome.... Or Verichrome PAN ... There is a huge difference....

I would develop it for 5:30 in HC-110 (B) standard time would be 4:30 but with aging film that's already shot I would at least give it a little extra boost.

I get that you want to use Rodinal, I usually have the same problem with wanting to use what's on hand, but if you really care about getting an image, you should use something that will subdue the fog.

Good luck and share your results!

 

[krisb1981]

I have Ilfosol 3, so I guess I could use that. What time would you recommend for Ilfosol? IT is Verichrome Pan.

 

[StoneNYC]

I have Ilfosol 3, so I guess I could use that. What time would you recommend for Ilfosol? IT is Verichrome Pan.

Well I've only shot the Verichrome non-pan and used ilfsol 3, when I shot the pan I used HC-110(B)

Also the film was UN-Shot and so I compensated for the age during shooting, and developed as normal.

In your case it sounds like the images were shot YEARS ago, so there may be some latent image failure, that can't be compensated for, but I would suggest using the same time I did of 5:00 in Ilfsol 3 since you have it.

And see what you get... It probably won't be printable, only scannable, but you never know good luck!

 

[krisb1981]

I dont care about printing for this roll. I will just scan it. Thank you for your time.

 

[shashinzukuri]

Verichrome Pan's latent image retention is basically "forever". I've developed lost rolls of VP that were literally forgotten in the backs of kitchen drawers for 50 years of South Carolina temperature changes and gotten surprisingly good results - the film survived about as well as postcards from that era have. Even Rodinal works OK - this was shot c.1965 and forgotten until found and developed this past February. 1:50 Rodinal for... 11 minutes, I think.

 

[Tom1956]

Verichrome Pan's latent image retention is basically "forever". I've developed lost rolls of VP that were literally forgotten in the backs of kitchen drawers for 50 years of South Carolina temperature changes and gotten surprisingly good results - the film survived about as well as postcards from that era have. Even Rodinal works OK - this was shot c.1965 and forgotten until found and developed this past February. 1:50 Rodinal for... 11 minutes, I think.

Thank you for posting that wonderful picture. I remember growing up in those times. A different country for sure.

 

[rjbuzzclick]

I recently developed a roll of 116 Verichrome Pan for a friend. I see-sawed it through a tray of D-76 stock for the standard time of 7:00@68F plus another 10% or so. From the images I got it looks like the film was exposed in the late 1960's. The film was fairly fogged, but I was able to get five images off the roll and contact print them.

 

[Denverdad]

As a general development strategy for "found film", I went with a suggestion I read online somewhere to use a low fog developer at high concentration, but low temperature; which led me to HC-110 at dilution A and a temperature which I try to get down to around 40F. To determine the best development time, I have always performed a clip test similar to what is described here. So far with about a dozen developments under my belt (including three rolls of Verichrome Pan), I have to say that I have been rather pleased with the results.

When it comes to the clip test my method is actually a bit more complicated than described on that site, and frankly is rather tedious. But the interesting thing is that the resulting times are pretty much right in line with the original Kodak recommendations! At least once the dilution and temperature are factored in. For Verichrome Pan, Kodak recommended a time of 6 minutes in HC-110(B) at 65F, which according to my calculation works out to about 9-1/4 minutes at dilution A and 40F. For comparison, one of my clip tests resulted in a time of about 9-1/2 minutes - so pretty much the same! I will have to do more tests to see if the trend holds, but so far I am not finding it necessary to add extra development time as is sometimes recommended.

Here are a couple samples (first was from a Kodak Monitor, second from an Imperial Reflex 620):

 

[rjbuzzclick]

Nice work! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Denverdad]

Maybe slightly off topic, but does anyone have Kodak's recommended developing time for the original Verichrome (non-pan) in HC-110? I would like to compare to my clip test results, but I can't seem to find a reference online. Thanks.

 

[StoneNYC]

This is MY time but I just made it up. This is Ilfsol 3 but my HC-110(B) times are often similar and the regular pan version time is 5 minutes I believe so I wouldn't think they would change the times when switching as it's mostly a base change not a whole emulsion change?

Anyway this worked for me with a few rolls I had and low base fog.

I know it's not what you asked for but it's something.

 

[shashinzukuri]

Maybe slightly off topic, but does anyone have Kodak's recommended developing time for the original Verichrome (non-pan) in HC-110? I would like to compare to my clip test results, but I can't seem to find a reference online. Thanks.

I'm not sure if such a thing would exist. From the best dates I can dig up, Verichrome was discontinued in favor of Verichrome Pan in 1956, but HC-110 wasn't released until 1962. Six years of legacy product support isn't unreasonable, but it wouldn't surprise me too much if Kodak's recommendation would have been "We never tested that and recommend you use D-76." (11 minutes, agitation every other minute, per (there was a url link here which no longer exists))

 

[Denverdad]

I'm not sure if such a thing would exist. From the best dates I can dig up, Verichrome was discontinued in favor of Verichrome Pan in 1956, but HC-110 wasn't released until 1962. Six years of legacy product support isn't unreasonable, but it wouldn't surprise me too much if Kodak's recommendation would have been "We never tested that and recommend you use D-76." (11 minutes, agitation every other minute, per (there was a url link here which no longer exists))

Well that would explain it then! For some reason I was under the mistaken impression that HC-110 went a lot farther back than that.

If anyone is looking for a starting point for the original (ortho) Verichrome in HC-110, I have one data point to report. My clip test of a 116 roll of Verichrome found in a Kodak No.2A Brownie Model B came in at 6.5 minutes with HC-110(A) at 50F. For dilution B, and converting to 68F/20C (based on the temperature scaling relationships on the Covington Innovations site), it would be just under 6 minutes. Here is a sample:

 

[StoneNYC]

Well that would explain it then! For some reason I was under the mistaken impression that HC-110 went a lot farther back than that.

If anyone is looking for a starting point for the original (ortho) Verichrome in HC-110, I have one data point to report. My clip test of a 116 roll of Verichrome found in a Kodak No.2A Brownie Model B came in at 6.5 minutes with HC-110(A) at 50F. For dilution B, and converting to 68F/20C (based on the temperature scaling relationships on the Covington Innovations site), it would be just under 6 minutes. Here is a sample:
View attachment 78119

Don you recommend a colder temp for older films? Why 50 degrees?

 

[hacked - sepiareverb]

View attachment 78119

That guy looks so much like my Great-Uncle. Never went to CO tho.

 

[Denverdad]

Don you recommend a colder temp for older films? Why 50 degrees?

Why 50 degrees instead of 40? Well that was one of my earlier rolls and I had one very practical reason - it was the lowest my first thermometer could measure! My newer one goes down to 30F, and I have settled on 40F as my goal ever since. In general, the strategy of developing older films at colder temperatures is based on the claim that it reduce the fog level - a claim I have encountered a number of times in online forums and blogs, but which I have never actually tested. So I am sort of just following that prescription blindly. Does it really make a difference? Is there an optimum temperature? Is there is such a thing as too cold? I don't really know. But to be honest I would be quite happy to hear that it is all a myth since I find that getting to and maintaining lower temperature takes a lot of extra effort.

 

[Denverdad]

That guy looks so much like my Great-Uncle. Never went to CO tho.

For what it is worth, I have evidence from other shots on the roll that it was from Michigan.

 

[photo buddy]

process it in T max or Diafine for 8 minutes do not pre wet the film.

 

[Hatchetman]

I have had great luck with VP from the late 60s through the 1970s. Shot a roll from 1958 and my luck ran out! lot of base fog, very thin negatives (shot at about ASA 50). I wouldn't even bother with film that old anymore. couple frames were decent. this is the best. Kodak Tourist 6x9

 

[Hatchetman]

Here's an example of VP 828 exp. 1976. shot at ASA 50, D76 1:1 Bantam Special

 

[StoneNYC]

Here's an example of VP 828 exp. 1976. shot at ASA 50, D76 1:1 Bantam Special

I have a roll of 828, but I don't see many cameras that take it...