Velvia back in stock, BHPhoto

[Edgy01]

Just a quick heads up that BH Photovideo has 120 Velvia back in stock!

dan

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Just looked. Not in stock. Only in 35mm

 

[Trail Images]

I've chased V-50 off and on in 120 & 4x5 for many years......Groan!
After this last hide & seek I've been using Ektachrome E-100 uninterrupted in 120 & 4x5 for well over a year now.....works fine lasts a long time......

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I've chased V-50 off and on in 120 & 4x5 for many years......Groan!
After this last hide & seek I've been using Ektachrome E-100 uninterrupted in 120 & 4x5 for well over a year now.....works fine lasts a long time......

Velvia 50 in 4x5 is no longer manufactured. I've got two boxes hidden away in my freezer.

 

[Trail Images]

Velvia 50 in 4x5 is no longer manufactured. I've got two boxes hidden away in my freezer.Hi

Hi Alan, yes I've been well aware of them dropping the V-50 in 4x5 sometime back now. I go clear back to the earlier years with the loss of the V-50 4x5 quick-loads. Still got the QL holder. Just in case Fuji brings the QL stuff back....

Then it was V-50 in all sizes as I recall. At one point I was buying V-50 4x5 from B&H and shipping to a friend in Australia as they had lost all their outlets. Then it was recent years spent buying from Japan only outlets thru eBay. I had one friend doing it thru Amazon outlet ? in Japan for awhile. I'm not even sure if Provia is even readily available or the V-100 either anymore. Not a fan of either of those. I find the E-100 does an excellent job and tweak it in post processing to my own liking. Too bad, I used V-50 exclusively for 25+ years in 35-120-4x5. At this point I doubt I'd bother with V-50 in 120 as keeping the consistence with my 120-4x5 usage is more important. Another thing.....Ive learned to love the 100 over 50 speed and have not needed to look at reciprocity issues to date either.

 

[Edgy01]

It’s incredible how quickly that stuff gets bought up. And I only bought a single 5-pack of 120 stuff.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Hi Alan, yes I've been well aware of them dropping the V-50 in 4x5 sometime back now. I go clear back to the earlier years with the loss of the V-50 4x5 quick-loads. Still got the QL holder. Just in case Fuji brings the QL stuff back....

Then it was V-50 in all sizes as I recall. At one point I was buying V-50 4x5 from B&H and shipping to a friend in Australia as they had lost all their outlets. Then it was recent years spent buying from Japan only outlets thru eBay. I had one friend doing it thru Amazon outlet ? in Japan for awhile. I'm not even sure if Provia is even readily available or the V-100 either anymore. Not a fan of either of those. I find the E-100 does an excellent job and tweak it in post processing to my own liking. Too bad, I used V-50 exclusively for 25+ years in 35-120-4x5. At this point I doubt I'd bother with V-50 in 120 as keeping the consistence with my 120-4x5 usage is more important. Another thing.....Ive learned to love the 100 over 50 speed and have not needed to look at reciprocity issues to date either.

Velvia 100 (but not Velvia 50) was discontinued being sold by Fujifilm in the USA because one of the chemicals used is considered hazardous by the EPA. You can probably still buy it from ebay and other sources. I;m not sure if labs will develope it though.

Fujifilm discontinues Velvia 100 in US after new EPA regulations

A new regulation in Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) prohibits the production and distribution of phenol, isopropylated phosphate (3:1), which Fujifilm says is found in the emulsion for Velvia 100 film.

www.dpreview.com

 

[armadsen]

Provia is still sold in 35mm, 120, 4x5, and 8x10.

8x10 is quite hard to find, but Fuji hasn’t announced its discontinuation and I have seen it in stock at my local shops in the not too distant past.

 

[Trail Images]

Provia is still sold in 35mm, 120, 4x5, and 8x10.

8x10 is quite hard to find, but Fuji hasn’t announced its discontinuation and I have seen it in stock at my local shops in the not too distant past.

Long time 8x10 user Ben Horne is still using Provia to date. Not sure where he is buying from at this point. I think he was going thru the Amazon outlet in Japan at one time.

 

[GLS]

I've got two boxes hidden away in my freezer.

I managed to grab six before things really dried up.

 

[Scott J.]

The discontinuation of Velvia 50 in sheet sizes back in 2021 still confuses me. I completely understand that 4x5 and 8x10 film (of any emulsion) account for considerably fewer sales compared to 135 and 120, but it's such a beloved film stock, particularly among large format landscape shooters, that I remain somewhat suspicious/hopeful that Fuji has plans to do occasional production runs of it. The film base used for sheets is different than what's used for roll film, so any such runs would have to be sheet-specific.

Part of me wonders if Fuji simply exhausted their supply of the film pre-pandemic, and since then, have been unable to do any further production runs because of ongoing raw materials shortages. That seems to have been the case with Velvia 50 roll film... which potentially undermines my hypothesis (i.e., if production of sheets and rolls were both adversely impacted by the pandemic, why announce a discontinuation of sheets only?). Perhaps they're prioritizing production of roll film and have sheets on a distant back burner? Or... perhaps it's really just gone for good. With so few color positive films left on the market, it just seems strange for a manufacturer to discontinue one so highly regarded and unique.

Side note: If it's really gone for good, I'd like to see Kodak capitalize on the discontinuation by announcing an intent to bring back something like E100VS, which would make for a decent replacement for landscape photography (actually really liked that film in the early 2000s... saturated but surprisingly neutral).

 

[armadsen]

Is 4x5 Provia coated on a different base than 4x5 Velvia?

 

[Scott J.]

Is 4x5 Provia coated on a different base than 4x5 Velvia?

Yes -- Velvia 50 sheets are coated on 175-micron polyester, while Provia is coated on 205-micron cellulose triacetate. (I had to look it up.)

This raises an interesting (albeit slightly off-topic) point: Economics aside, is the limiting factor on doing a production run of sheet film primarily the base material or the emulsion type? In other words, if Provia sheets and Velvia 50 sheets were both coated on the same base material, would it be less of a challenge for Fuji to produce a sheet-destined master roll of Provia followed by a master roll of Velvia 50 than it would be to produce a roll film-destined master roll of Velvia 50 followed by a master roll of Velvia 50 sheets? Is the equipment used for producing master rolls even the same between sheet film and roll film?

I'm thinking the emulsion is slightly different between rolls and sheets, as well, so this is probably all moot.

 

[armadsen]

I was wondering the same thing. Coating slightly different emulsions on the same base seems less hard than coating on different base materials. But I’m completely uninformed, and surely there’s a reason for using different base materials for Provia and Velvia.

In any case, I’m down to one box of 4x5 Velvia in the freezer and wish they’d make more.

 

[koraks]

I completely understand that 4x5 and 8x10 film (of any emulsion) account for considerably fewer sales compared to 135 and 120, but it's such a beloved film stock, particularly among large format landscape shooters, that I remain somewhat suspicious/hopeful that Fuji has plans to do occasional production runs of it. The film base used for sheets is different than what's used for roll film, so any such runs would have to be sheet-specific.

So you understand that production runs of sheet film E6 will have to be spread out over a long period of sales. This implies that much of it will have to be stored for an extended period of time, and that is (1) costly, since it's refrigerated storage unavailable to other (potentially more profitable) products and (2) there's still the risk of the material sliding out of spec in this period. Overall, I can see how a major chemical company chooses to just not go there anymore.

have been unable to do any further production runs because of ongoing raw materials shortages.

That's what you assume to be the cause. But is it really? There may be other factors playing a roll, such as a lack of financial attractiveness.

With so few color positive films left on the market, it just seems strange for a manufacturer to discontinue one so highly regarded and unique.

"Highly regarded and unique" don't help to pay employee wages, cost of capital, investments in R&D in new products, etc.

I'd like to see Kodak capitalize on the discontinuation

They're already doing that. In a way, by introducing E100, Kodak has accelerated the demise of Fuji's chrome products. The market for E6 products is very small and only Fuji's offering was more than enough to serve that entire market. With Kodak getting its share of that small cake, they diverted turnover away from Fuji, who probably didn't mind all too much seeing the demise of what's at best a 'dog' product in their portfolio (in BCG terms). People often forget that small and shrinking markets are kind of difficult to capitalize on, especially if there's massively excess production capacity to supply those markets. The logical response is that such production capacity is destroyed and any resources tied up in them freed for other purposes. This is what appears to be happening at Fuji's side, now.

In business, there's only so much room to be sentimental. In the end, the Excel sheet will be leading in what's going to be made and what's going to be axed.

What we also don't know for sure is how successful the 'capitalization' of Kodak is in its E100 endeavor. Only KA knows how much of the stuff they're selling and how much profit they're making on it. Keep in mind that E6 is only a fraction of the size of C41 let alone B&W in still film usage, and E6 will also be rather small in relation to ECN2 in the cine arena. It's fairly easy to list a couple of big-$$$ ECN2 productions from recent years, but how many Oppenheimers have been shot on E6/E100?

 

[MattKing]

I was wondering the same thing. Coating slightly different emulsions on the same base seems less hard than coating on different base materials. But I’m completely uninformed, and surely there’s a reason for using different base materials for Provia and Velvia.

In any case, I’m down to one box of 4x5 Velvia in the freezer and wish they’d make more.

Switching substrate materials is a relatively difficult, and not-inexpensive process. If volumes are low, it may be difficult to justify the time, expense and diversion of resources.

 

[Prest_400]

So you understand that production runs of sheet film E6 will have to be spread out over a long period of sales. This implies that much of it will have to be stored for an extended period of time, and that is (1) costly, since it's refrigerated storage unavailable to other (potentially more profitable) products and (2) there's still the risk

What we also don't know for sure is how successful the 'capitalization' of Kodak is in its E100 endeavor. Only KA knows how much of the stuff they're selling and how much profit they're making on it. Keep in mind that E6 is only a fraction of the size of C41 let alone B&W in still film usage, and E6 will also be rather small in relation to ECN2 in the cine arena. It's fairly easy to list a couple of big-$$$ ECN2 productions from recent years, but how many Oppenheimers have been shot on E6/E100?

Some season of "Euphoria", the TV series, was shot on Ektachrome

In the Smarter every day Kodak videos there is a room that they repurposed and built from new just for Ektachrome, those details are interesting. Now, Fuji could handle the Acros recipe to Ilford and Velvia to Kodak and there we go!

Part of me wonders if Fuji simply exhausted their supply of the film pre-pandemic, and since then, have been unable to do any further production runs because of ongoing raw materials shortages. That seems to have been the case with Velvia 50 roll film... which potentially undermines my hypothesis (i.e., if production of sheets and rolls were both adversely impacted by the pandemic, why announce a discontinuation of sheets only?). Perhaps they're prioritizing production of roll film and have sheets on a distant back burner? Or... perhaps it's really just gone for good. With so few color positive films left on the market, it just seems strange for a manufacturer to discontinue one so highly regarded and unique.

Bless PE, missed, as he had unvaluable insights in film production, and what seems simple is not. I recall great knowledge sharing about f.ex. film might have components specific to them. One of which I have read about are synthetised specially and once they run out it's very costly to do (Agfa, Polaroid, Ferrania color films). Additional to that, are emulsion tweaks due to supply and regulation.
The advantage here is that Fuji must clearly be coating for Instax, so they have the infrastructure.

Not just Velvia, in 2021 they discontinued 120 C41 films. 160NS and 400H of which the latter is very appreciated by wedding photographers. I have purchased and eyed some of these; the latest dated batches are 3-2024 for 160NS and 1-2024 for 400H. It would be nice if they pulled a Kodak and made some middle ground C41 film, for which they had many films in ISO 100-400. Heck, remember Superia Reala.

Lately I have been writing around about this. Fuji is in an undetermined state concerning Film manufacturing, we just don't know, and the line up is quite strange.

 

[dscottjorgenson]

FYI, I just last weekend received delivery of a 5-pack box of 120 Velvia 50 from a smaller, regional retailer here in the US. It was impossible to find domestically during most of the pandemic, and has been difficult to find even afterward, but it is out there if you keep hunting.

Also note, that the 5-pack I just received is dated 2025/1, and other shipments from this retailer and others, which I've received going back over the past year, have dates (in order of my receiving them over the past year) of 2025/1, 2024/9, 2024/6, 2024/2, and 2023/12. And each box with the same date is stamped with the same lot number; and each lot number has a different date. And as the lot numbers go up, the dates go further out. In other words, everything appears to be normal, as it always has been over the last 20+ years that I have been ordering and using this film. I see no signs that this film is "no longer being manufactured, just parceled out from the same final master roll" (or whatever the rumor you may hear/read).

 

[koraks]

I see no signs that this film is "no longer being manufactured, just parceled out from the same final master roll" (or whatever the rumor you may hear/read).

Do you have any evidence that lot numbers are associated with individual coating runs? I don't. Although I do suspect it's very much not the case, since this would drastically limit the error tracking possibilities of lot numbers if Fuji potentially does several confectioning runs from the same master roll. Given the practical considerations of aligning several manufacturing processes, it's likely that coating and confectioning are distinct/separate processes at least for film (paper might be different).

 

[dscottjorgenson]

Do you have any evidence that lot numbers are associated with individual coating runs? ...

I have no idea. But clearly lot numbers are associated with expiration dates, and presumably expiration dates are associated with the coating date. One coating run --> one expiration date, I would presume - it just seems logical but let me know if you think otherwise. The main thing in my experience has been that, though the film (120 Velvia 50) has been difficult to find, once found everything appears as normal with it. I've not had any problem with receiving short-dated or expired film, for instance; quite the contrary, the film I've received has all been expiration-dated 1 - 1.5 years out, as usual; and the lot numbers have kept incrementing along with their associated expiration dates, each time - all as usual for the past 20+ years I have been ordering this film.

 

[mshchem]

I don't buy the argument that E100 has ruined Fujichrome sales. EK is serving the Hollywood world, and we get some lovely films too. I love Provia and Velvia so I'm not going to stop buying. I shoot some Ektachrome too.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

FYI, I just last weekend received delivery of a 5-pack box of 120 Velvia 50 from a smaller, regional retailer here in the US. It was impossible to find domestically during most of the pandemic, and has been difficult to find even afterward, but it is out there if you keep hunting.

Also note, that the 5-pack I just received is dated 2025/1, and other shipments from this retailer and others, which I've received going back over the past year, have dates (in order of my receiving them over the past year) of 2025/1, 2024/9, 2024/6, 2024/2, and 2023/12. And each box with the same date is stamped with the same lot number; and each lot number has a different date. And as the lot numbers go up, the dates go further out. In other words, everything appears to be normal, as it always has been over the last 20+ years that I have been ordering and using this film. I see no signs that this film is "no longer being manufactured, just parceled out from the same final master roll" (or whatever the rumor you may hear/read).

How can the same lot numbers have different dates? The whole point of lot numbers is so you can keep everything together for the same control and results.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I don't buy the argument that E100 has ruined Fujichrome sales. EK is serving the Hollywood world, and we get some lovely films too. I love Provia and Velvia so I'm not going to stop buying. I shoot some Ektachrome too.

I've tried Ektachrome and like Velvia 50 better. Unfortunately they stopped making it in large format.

 

[koraks]

One coating run --> one expiration date, I would presume

That would sound logical. However, it's perfectly possible that coated stock is refrigerated and confectioned later on. This would slow down aging and in that scenario, it would be likely they also push out the expiration date. As a result, one coating run may end up in different lot numbers, each with their own, different expiration date. It's conjecture on my part, admittedly, but so is yours.

The reason why I'm suspicious of the 1:1 relation of coating runs and expiration dates is the very tiny volume of E6 still film sales in relation to the size of a typical film coating run.

 

[Scott J.]

However, it's perfectly possible that coated stock is refrigerated and confectioned later on. This would slow down aging and in that scenario, it would be likely they also push out the expiration date. As a result, one coating run may end up in different lot numbers, each with their own, different expiration date. It's conjecture on my part, admittedly, but so is yours.

This is my thinking, as well. It would be easy to assign a "confectioning lot number" that appeared on the box, which then correlated with a "production lot number" that consumers don't see but which the manufacturer records in their own books.