Velvia 100F in Voigtländer Rollfilm from 1925

[MXP]

I got the funny idea to try out a Fuji Velvia 100F in a camera from 1925. It was a Voigtländer Rollfilm 6x9 camera from 1925 with an uncoated 4.5/10,5 cm uncoated Skopar lens and a camera with no film presure plate. It did not expect something special but got quite surprised of the optical quality of the lens. It seems to be well corrected and I did no see any CA.
Two of the frames are here along with some crops. I used a good scanner.
Both images was shot hand held.

http://www.pbase.com/mxp/voigtlnder_rollfilm_1925

Max

 

[Paul Howell]

I did a job for a fashion mag, the art director wanted some sort of fuzzy not quite good color for a photo spread that was to be sort of sur-realistic, used an old Ansco folding camera with Kodacolor, this was before Photoshop. Shots were just too good, I was really surpised at how sharp and accurate the color was. I had to use a 127 Bell and Howell with a plasitic lens and out of date GAF film to get the look they were after. Many of these older cameras had really good optics.

 

[Allan Swindles]

Excellent pictures Max. I'm not convinced that photography has advanced very much in 'real' terms since. The superb Velvia film helps of course. How about trying it with a tripod and cable release to prove just how good these old cameras and lenses really are!

 

[MXP]

I had expected more "retro" colors and also some red/blue CA in the high light contrast. Even on metallic reflections where the film is blown out I see no CA. I did see this on my 50/4 CFI for my Hasselblad (now sold). But of course a 50mm is a WA and much more complicated to correct.
Yes, it could be very interesting to take some tripod shots to see what the lens really can do.........

 

[Jersey Vic]

Interesting results. I read somewhere that 90%+ of the cost of old cameras was in the lens and that as the bodies became more complicated the reverse became true. That Voigtländer (I copied your spelling since I have no "ä"-nice! ) had been making optics since the mid 18th century gave them a good headstart when these new fangled camera things came out. Too bad there isn't any 25 or even 12 asa color film so you could shoot these images wide open and see what that looks like. The closest we B&W luddites get to replicating that experience is the fine efke 25 film shot at 12. Lots of fun in an old Rolleiflex or a Leica II

 

[argus]

Hi Max,

saturated film is a very good option for old cameras with (uncoated) lenses alike.
I personally use a 6x9 Ercona II folder from the 1950s with very good results on Fuji Provia.

Those 'old' cameras are not to be underestimated

G

 

[AgX]

MXP,

What does `CA´ stand for?

 

[MattKing]

MXP,

What does `CA´ stand for?

Chromatic aberration?

Matt

 

[Ole]

The Skopar is a Tessar-type lens, so I wouldn't expect anything but good sharp results. With six air/glass surfaces the flare isn't too bad either.

Chromatic aberration was largely eliminated by the introduction of the achromatic doublet way back before the dawn of photography. There have been later (less successful) lens designs showing significant CA, but it's really only "pixel peepers" who worry about this.

Before colour film, too much CA would give a "smeared" look with panchromatic film - and before that, it would give apparent chromatic focus shift with blue-sensitive films.

So you can safely assume that any lens with more than one simple meniscus element will show negligible CA.

As for "muted colours" - I have a cracked Eurynar (dialyte) that could give that, because of excessive flare. But there's nothing in the lens that mutes colours!

 

[MXP]

MXP,

What does `CA´ stand for?

Yes, Chromatic Aberration......often seen in highlight edges.

 

[MXP]

I have the same type lens in one of those cameras which can take a roll film back (e.g. a Plaubel back which I have a couple of). Then then film will be more flat. It runs down to 1/25 sec. but needs a CLA if the slow shutter times has to be used. I think the lens deserves a flat film plane .....I also have such a camera with an uncoated Heliar which I think I will try. It is a 5 lens design but I don't know how well corrected this lens is. But some describe its image potential to be magic
An efke ISO 25 for 6x9 could be a good film for testing the resolution. Some years back I tested the Gigabitfilm (ISO 40) for 35mm cameras. A film with very high resolving power. But it never came out in roll film only as 4x5 sheets (ISO 25).
It is funny to play with these old cameras.

 

[Steve Smith]

I copied your spelling since I have no "ä

Off topic but a list of odd characters is here:http://www.tedmontgomery.com/tutorial/ALTchrc.html

Hold down the 'Alt' key, type (in this case) 132 release 'Alt' key = ä



Steve.

 

[SteveinAlaska]

I have just started using Ilford Pan F 50 in my 1936 Voightlander Bessa RF this past week. This camera has the Compur-Rapid shutter with a Halomar lenses. After viewing the results on the negative roll, I just had to jump up and down and run around with a silly grin on my face for the rest of the evening. This has been several months of trial and error with various brands and speeds of B&W and color. Finally, it has come together! I use the Voightlander meter that I mounted on my 1955 Leica M3 to set aperture, put the shutter speed at 1/50 or thereabouts, mount the camera on a tripod with a cable release and I'm good to go. Shot a roll at the antique auto club runaround last Wednesday and always had someone looking over my shoulder watching the old guy with his old camera!

 

[benjiboy]

I got the funny idea to try out a Fuji Velvia 100F in a camera from 1925. It was a Voigtländer Rollfilm 6x9 camera from 1925 with an uncoated 4.5/10,5 cm uncoated Skopar lens and a camera with no film presure plate. It did not expect something special but got quite surprised of the optical quality of the lens. It seems to be well corrected and I did no see any CA.
Two of the frames are here along with some crops. I used a good scanner.
Both images was shot hand held.

http://www.pbase.com/mxp/voigtlnder_rollfilm_1925

Max

It just goes to prove what I've been saying for years, photography is a very simple process about the action of light on film, and the biggest leaps forward in the technology has been in the materials more so than in the hardware IMHO.

 

[MXP]

I have just started using Ilford Pan F 50 in my 1936 Voightlander Bessa RF this past week. This camera has the Compur-Rapid shutter with a Halomar lenses. After viewing the results on the negative roll, I just had to jump up and down and run around with a silly grin on my face for the rest of the evening. This has been several months of trial and error with various brands and speeds of B&W and color. Finally, it has come together! I use the Voightlander meter that I mounted on my 1955 Leica M3 to set aperture, put the shutter speed at 1/50 or thereabouts, mount the camera on a tripod with a cable release and I'm good to go. Shot a roll at the antique auto club runaround last Wednesday and always had someone looking over my shoulder watching the old guy with his old camera!

I also have an old Bessa RF. I have never tried it but it has got a CLA and ready to take pictures. It has an uncoated Heliar. I will see one day if this lens can make some magic as some people say. It is probably just a lens. Never heard about the "Halomar" .....is that some kind of a 3 lens design?
I remember something like a "Heliomar" .....but not sure.....

 

[SteveinAlaska]

MXP;
My mistake on the spelling! The correct name of the lens is "Helomar". To complete the I.D. after that ....1:3.5 F=10.5cm Nr 1045422 Voightlander Braunschweig. From my surfing the 'net, apparently there were a choice of lenses when a person ordered the camera new. To further finish the story,I spoke with a woman that knew of the camera and some of it's history. She thinks that her grandfather purchased it new in Europe before he came here to the states prior to WW2.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I'm not surprised by the results from your uncoated Skopar. I have one of them (1930s) and I have more recent vintage coated 105 Skopars (from the 1960s).

 

[Chazzy]

This thread got me thinking--how far back do these 120 folders go? Were there any made before the twenties?

 

[MXP]

I looked in my Kodak book and there are some folding Kodak cameras which dates back to 1890. But they looks like a square box when folded. The Folding Pocket Kodak has the shape we know from a folding camera when folded this camera was introduced in 1897. But that is Kodak.....they may not be the first......

 

[MXP]

MXP;
My mistake on the spelling! The correct name of the lens is "Helomar". To complete the I.D. after that ....1:3.5 F=10.5cm Nr 1045422 Voightlander Braunschweig. From my surfing the 'net, apparently there were a choice of lenses when a person ordered the camera new. To further finish the story,I spoke with a woman that knew of the camera and some of it's history. She thinks that her grandfather purchased it new in Europe before he came here to the states prior to WW2.

Ok! ....could be interesting if she had some old exposed film shot with the camera......
I got a Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex a couple of week ago and I got the information that it was at least 40 years ago the camera had been used. The funny thing was that there was a film inside the camera. I took it out and sent it to the lap....just for fun. There were something on.....some portraits. It will be interesting to scan. But some of the contrast has gone......or quite a lot...

 

[MXP]

I'm not surprised by the results from your uncoated Skopar. I have one of them (1930s) and I have more recent vintage coated 105 Skopars (from the 1960s).

It could be interesting to know what the difference is between a Skopar and a Tessar......the Skopar is always said to be a kind of Tessar design.....

 

[Erik Petersson]

Bessa Voigtländer RF 6x9

I have just started using Ilford Pan F 50 in my 1936 Voightlander Bessa RF this past week. This camera has the Compur-Rapid shutter with a Halomar lenses. After viewing the results on the negative roll, I just had to jump up and down and run around with a silly grin on my face for the rest of the evening. This has been several months of trial and error with various brands and speeds of B&W and color. Finally, it has come together! I use the Voightlander meter that I mounted on my 1955 Leica M3 to set aperture, put the shutter speed at 1/50 or thereabouts, mount the camera on a tripod with a cable release and I'm good to go. Shot a roll at the antique auto club runaround last Wednesday and always had someone looking over my shoulder watching the old guy with his old camera!

Hi,

I found this thread after having develop my first roll from a Bessa Voigtländer RF 6x9 - probably similar to yours, with a helomar lens. I have not grinned yet - the out of focus areas are beatiful, but I do not see very much sharpness anywhere. Maybe I am doing some wrong, such as handholding. My camera lacks a cable release, it only has a lever on the lid, which probably does not help. I so much would like this camera to be sharp! Do you have any advice?

thanks!

 

[benjiboy]

Erik , I suggest you take it back to the repairer, their work is usually guaranteed, explain the problem to him, show him the pictures, and let him see if he can solve the problem.

 

[Erik Petersson]

Ben,
I could of course call him, allthough I am quite sure that he would charge me more for it. The deal was that he should repair some defined problems, not "fix the camera" or similar. Still the repairman sold a T-max 100 to just because he regarded the lens to have very good resolution. I should probably call him.