Velvia 100 Discontinued in the U.S.

[Ernst-Jan]

What amazes me is that you can freely buy as many paracetamol tablets as you like, when even a moderate overdose can severely damage your liver and even be fatal. In contrast, several comparatively innocuous substances are either verboten or severely restricted.

Also, all the medicines people take in a small city are a bigger harm to waste water than the few Velvia 100 rolls developed over the whole country.
Well at least in Western Europe, I don't know for the USA with many people not having health insurance or a maximum amount that their insurance will cover...

 

[Ten301]

I, for one, feel so much safer now that the EPA has quickly banned Velvia 100, cleared it from U.S. store shelves and taken it out of the hands of irresponsible photographers. Like me, I’m sure you’re all appalled about what has become the almost daily mass Velvia deaths in our country...

 

[faberryman]

I wonder if the reason that Fuji is not planning to reformulate Velvia 100 is that they have already stopped producing it and are satisfying what little demand there is for it from their store of frozen master rolls. In the past, members of the forum have speculated that that is the reason they have discontinued certain other films.

I have forgotten the details of the Neopan discontinuation. I do seem to remember that when, to everyone's surprise, they reintroduced it, it had been reformulated, so Fuji doesn't seem to be adverse to reformulation per se if it makes economic sense. I suspect it makes no economic sense to reformulate Velvia 100.

Maybe they will make a movie about a famous photographer traveling cross-country with his son to have his final roll of Velvia 100 developed at the last lab processing it. Will he reach it in time?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The relevant chemical has been classified as a 'Persistent, Bioaccumulative, and Toxic Chemical' (PBT) in the US. In the EU it is still under review. So count on it being banned there as well, eventually.

And when you read the EPA ruling you'll realise that it also becomes illegal to process Velvia 100 after the September deadline. That may well be why Fuji stops sales immediately. To give time to use and process all remaining product in US circulation.

Release into water seems to be the primary concern, and hence I think there was no chance for film to get an exception.

Labs may refuse to develop this film after Sept so freezing it to store for the future is of no value unless you develop yourself. Personally, I don't like Velvia 100 and continue to use Velvia 50. But in 4x5 size, I have to order directly from Japan at high costs for the film and shipping. Maybe this will change after Sept and 4x5 Velvia 50 will be sold in America again.

 

[Lachlan Young]

I wonder if the reason that Fuji is not planning to reformulate Velvia 100 is that they have already stopped producing it and are satisfying what little demand there is for it from their store of frozen master rolls. In the past, members of the forum have speculated that that is the reason they have discontinued certain other films.

Far more likely is that Fuji's calendar for scheduled replacement of components has been shredded by COVID affecting research/ testing/ coating - I would not be surprised if the problem that affected NPH was due to a very similar component issue. It may be that due to COVID affecting work up the R&D chain, a coating of Velvia 100 with the component substituted out has been pushed back weeks/ months.

 

[faberryman]

Far more likely is that Fuji's calendar for scheduled replacement of components has been shredded by COVID affecting research/ testing/ coating - I would not be surprised if the problem that affected NPH was due to a very similar component issue. It may be that due to COVID affecting work up the R&D chain, a coating of Velvia 100 with the component substituted out has been pushed back weeks/ months.

Why do you think that is the far more likely scenario?

Anybody know off how many 36 exposure rolls you can get off a master roll?

Anybody know how many rolls of Velvia 100 Fuji sold last year?

 

[Lachlan Young]

Why do you think that is the far more likely scenario?

Anybody know off how many 36 exposure rolls you can get off a master roll?

Anybody know how many rolls of Velvia 100 Fuji sold last year?

The urgent short notice of the product withdrawal for a start. Normally they would reflect a much longer lead-in to EOL of the product.

Ilford and Kodak have both stated about 35-40,000 rolls of 120/135 as roughly the outcome of a minimum coating quantity - and up to 3-5x that as a maximum production run size. It seems to depend on how scalable the emulsions are set up to be. Both Ilford and Kodak have put a fair amount of time and effort into scalability (and seemingly the use of smaller makes, coated more often), it's unknown to what extent Fuji has. If they're reliant on a couple of coating runs of Velvia 100 per annum that could leave them vulnerable to an external event that alters schedules by weeks/ months when they are trying to meet an environmental/ regulatory deadline.

 

[mshchem]

This regulation has been in the works for years. Fuji and Kodak can fill this niche if there's enough demand. Expect higher prices

 

[faberryman]

The urgent short notice of the product withdrawal for a start. Normally they would reflect a much longer lead-in to EOL of the product.

The effective date of the EPA regulation is what precipitated the "urgent short notice of the product withdrawal". Based on Fuji's past practices, I believe the decision whether to reformulate and produce will be predominantly an economic one. I floated the possibility that Fuji is currently not producing Velvia 100 and is satisfying demand from existing master rolls because that has been a popular theory here in connection with other Fuji product discontinuations. I have no inside information.

Expect higher prices

Speaking of higher prices, Ektachrome at B&H is $19.99/roll. Wasn't it something like $11.99/roll when it was reintroduced in 2018? The good news is that you can order as few as three rolls and get free shipping.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

this is a shock... e100 is still my favorite, but I've been thinking velvia 100 is my second favorite slide film. Provia's good, but I'm not super big on velvia 50.

the fuji drama never ends.

 

[warden]

Speaking of higher prices, Ektachrome at B&H is $19.99/roll. Wasn't it something like $11.99/roll when it was reintroduced in 2018?

I think that original price is about right, although if I recall correctly there was a good deal of a dollar off per roll at introduction. I like using slide film from time to time but this price is beyond what I would pay for the enjoyment.

 

[Ten301]

the fuji drama never ends.

Ain’t that the truth

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

If Kodak reformulates e100vs, I’ll be happy

 

[Kino]

It's pretty typical of US Government action. While egregious polluters with obvious serious environmental and health consequences are ignored due to social or political influence (e-waste, cell phones etc.), they tend to go after low-hanging fruit that doesn't have high visibility support. In other words, they like to champion changes against under represented groups, irregardless of logic.

 

[Cholentpot]

It's pretty typical of US Government action. While egregious polluters with obvious serious environmental and health consequences are ignored due to social or political influence (e-waste, cell phones etc.), they tend to go after low-hanging fruit that doesn't have high visibility support. In other words, they like to champion changes against under represented groups, irregardless of logic.

See leaded Avgas for this situation.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Fuji has always been somewhat secretive, so guess all you want; I doubt any of us know the real answer. As far US agencies are concerned, there's obviously a lot of ignorance out there. EPA is responsible for the control of poisonous or carcinogenic contamination of the air, water, etc. Medicinal products and drugs are under FDA responsibility. And in many instances, general air quality is up to State agencies. Sometimes these various bureaucracies have conflicting interests.

For example, here in California, certain paint solvents were banned as smog-forming, so certain manufacturers substituted downright carcinogenic solvents for awhile, but which didn't created smog. It took awhile to iron that contradiction out via newer more specific rules. But then they began substituting a nonflammable non-smog ingredient that turned out to have anesthetic properties, so house painters were dying by falling off ladders. So back to the drawing board. Eventually more realistic formulations turned up, but with certain compromises in product quality, higher price, etc - always a tradeoff.

I've seen it all at close range over the years. And I go back as far as when people were condemning the government for banning asbestos in household products, or grinding and sawing it in workplaces, likewise arsenical ingredients, or when monster chemicals like pentachlorophenol and dioxin-laded fluids could be purchased right off retail shelves, not to mention carcinogenic pesticides. All agencies have their foibles. But if you really want to rant at the EPA, blame them for the fact people tend to live a lot longer now than they used to. And if you can't tolerate that fact, and are wistful about old times, then set up your own moonshine still and distill some creosote, and drink that.

 

[Kino]

Fuji has always been somewhat secretive, so guess all you want; I doubt any of us know the real answer. As far US agencies are concerned, there's obviously a lot of ignorance out there. EPA is responsible for the control of poisonous or carcinogenic contamination of the air, water, etc. Medicinal products and drugs are under FDA responsibility. And in many instances, general air quality is up to State agencies. Sometimes these various bureaucracies have conflicting interests.

For example, here in California, certain paint solvents were banned as smog-forming, so certain manufacturers substituted downright carcinogenic solvents for awhile, but which didn't created smog. It took awhile to iron that contradiction out via newer more specific rules. But then they began substituting a nonflammable non-smog ingredient that turned out to have anesthetic properties, so house painters were dying by falling off ladders. So back to the drawing board. Eventually more realistic formulations turned up, but with certain compromises in product quality, higher price, etc - always a tradeoff.

I've seen it all at close range over the years. And I go back as far as when people were condemning the government for banning asbestos in household products, or grinding and sawing it in workplaces, likewise arsenical ingredients, or when monster chemicals like pentachlorophenol and dioxin-laded fluids could be purchased right off retail shelves, not to mention carcinogenic pesticides. All agencies have their foibles. But if you really want to rant at the EPA, blame them for the fact people tend to live a lot longer now than they used to. And if you can't tolerate that fact, and are wistful about old times, then set up your own moonshine still and distill some creosote, and drink that.

Baby with the bathwater; I am all for logical regulation, but this is NOT logical unless it is applied across the board. Therein lies the rub...

 

[DREW WILEY]

Kino - Corporations big enough to have their own legal armies can obviously defend themselves a lot longer and better than the little guy. Unfair, yes; but that's how it is with everything, not just enviro regulations. Fuji is a large corporation, but Velvia 100 is tiny in the overall scheme of things and maybe not worth the fuss. Maybe they will get around to it. I dunno. But be careful what you wish for. They listened to us and put ACROS b&w roll film back into production, but at dramatically higher price.

Here in the SF Bay area, the elephant in the room as far as air pollution goes is the tremendous cargo container port business and related truck traffic. Those big cargo ships contribute about 80% of the smog we didn't use to have. Even all the oil refineries are only about 12%. So who got picked on first - home BBQ use, house paint solvents, etc - only about 3% of the overall problem except in winter, when illegal wood-burning home fireplaces becomes significant, but are very difficult to enforce. Gradually, however, the bigger polluters do get corralled, and the next round will affect the overseas shipping industry and require cleaner diesel.

For a few years I worked with the EPA in getting local contractors of various trades properly trained, licensed, and equipped relative to safe lead and cadmium paint removal from older houses and so forth. Out of several thousand, there were a few who griped about having to spend $150 on a class and another $300 on the license. But then when they started chatting with fellow attendees, some of whom had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars getting chelated and trying to get their health back, or that of their children after careless work in the neighborhood, the attitude changed completely.

 

[TheGreatGasMaskMan]

Kino - Corporations big enough to have their own legal armies can obviously defend themselves a lot longer and better than the little guy. Unfair, yes; but that's how it is with everything, not just enviro regulations. Fuji is a large corporation, but Velvia 100 is tiny in the overall scheme of things and maybe not worth the fuss. Maybe they will get around to it. I dunno. But be careful what you wish for. They listened to us and put ACROS b&w roll film back into production, but at dramatically higher price.

that's the magic of the internet, just get enough people to make a big enough stink and then the corporations listen.

but we're still waiting on that pro 400 reformulation.

 

[faberryman]

It is interesting that one, among many, temporary exemptions from the regulation is:

"Processing and distribution in commerce of PIP (3:1) for use in photographic printing articles and PIP (3:1)-containing photographic printing articles until January 1, 2022."

Perhaps someone with actual expertise in the area can offer a explanation for why PIP (3:1) in slide film did not receive the same temporary exemption.

 

[Kino]

Kino - Corporations big enough to have their own legal armies can obviously defend themselves a lot longer and better than the little guy. Unfair, yes; but that's how it is with everything, not just enviro regulations. Fuji is a large corporation, but Velvia 100 is tiny in the overall scheme of things and maybe not worth the fuss. Maybe they will get around to it. I dunno. But be careful what you wish for. They listened to us and put ACROS b&w roll film back into production, but at dramatically higher price.

Don't get me wrong; I am not dissing Fuji, nor do I blame their reaction, I have issues with the regulators who seem to have an inability to science-based regulations across the board in a uniform fashion.

 

[MattKing]

Shall we all agree that this thread is about the availability of a film, and only tangentially related to politics?
It would be unfortunate if we had to lock it and/or move it to the Soap Box.

 

[Kino]

Shall we all agree that this thread is about the availability of a film, and only tangentially related to politics?
It would be unfortunate if we had to lock it and/or move it to the Soap Box.

OK, agreed. Can this include a discussion of how to mount a campaign to convince Fuji to reformulate the film stock?

 

[Lachlan Young]

OK, agreed. Can this include a discussion of how to mount a campaign to convince Fuji to reformulate the film stock?

It may well have been/ be in hand - but severely delayed.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The problem with belling the cat is just finding it. Somebody needs to have a serious contact inside Fuji itself. Fujifilm USA is just a marketing entity and is seldom responsive to special requests.

For several decades as a professional buyer I interacted with both Japanese and German equipment manufacturers. None of that was photo related, but otherwise analogous. Due to my proven track record getting new lines jump-started in the US, the company I worked for quickly gained a widespread reputation, and I ended up communicating with CEO's and top engineers directly, on a first-name basis, often in person. That's how things get done, and get done fast. It's all about personal contacts. Otherwise, you're just a piece of paper on the bottom of a pile, or lost somewhere amidst a cyber-pile of old e-mail . So if you have to build a signal fire to attract attention, you need to know where to start; and it ain't at the desk of some underpaid entry-level Customer Service Rep.