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Utah LF Photog Arrested, Harrassed, Loses Job

Hello, always nice to chat with a local photographer.
Why does this happen more often in Utah? Well, first off, I have not been everywhere, of course, but I have done much photography in Nicaragua, Cent. America, England and many parts of Europe and many parts of the U.S..Only in Utah have I been hassled AT ALL.
Utah.... ? I am not sure why, curiously enough I read another incident that happened here. The Ogden paper printed a story about "Albert Wang", he was photographing graffitti from TRAX and the UTA police confiscated his card etc.

Anyway, after asking retailers, police, and just people I meet here there are 2 things:
1) when the olympics were here a few years ago there were (apperantly) conferences done by all sorts of corporations, govt. entities and companies. These conferences "taught" people how to spot a suspicious person and encouraged contacting some official if you thought ANYTHING looked out of the ordinary.
Here, there is rampant "ordinary" so much looked suspicious.
2) Convenience and compliance ????? It seems that people who grew up here (the ones I know anyway) are much more willing to trust anyone in authority and not to pursue asking questions about such things. I do not know why, maybe something taught in the school system here. What do you think?
Oh yeah, FYI , tripods need permiting to be on public ground here.
tanya

Thanks,
Tanya
 

Can't comment on the olympics. I moved out of Park City a few years ahead of that chaos. As to the tripods, that is not true. If you are a movie company or such, then yes you need to have a permit. The general public, ie one person is not required to have a permit unless they are going to interfer with the flow of traffic.

As to the genralization about it possibly being taught in the shcools here that is way off base. It is no more taught in the wchools here than any where else. If it is a remarked veiled about the Mormon church again you are off base. Yeah the Mormon church does teach to respect the laws of the land. Is that wrong to respect them? If you don't like the laws there are ways to go about it to change the laws. being combative and refusing to show id is silly. this whole thing might have been avoided if you had just given them your id.

I have traveled quite extensively to the same regions if not the same countries. I was nearly strip searched in Venezuela (given what I look like the probably thought it better to avoid the strip search). I have been arrested and later released in California for being on a public backroad using a LF camera. I have been harrassed and my children beaten up in New Mexico because they and I both had blonde hair and blue eyes. I was arrested in Paris for waiting for my cousin in a shop behind me to come out. I have been harrassed in TN. because I was not a true southerner. To assume it is only in Utah and that if you were someplace else this kind of thing wouldn't happen is absurd. It is an over genralization made by you because now it seems you want to vent against the state. I'm not defending the state, there are a lot of things I rile against here. Yet I do not go around refusing to give ID. Common sense would say it is a simple thing to do and would avoid the whole mess.
 
Aggie-
It's a shame you didn't see this second article in the first place. Better late than never, though.Yes, you do have the incidents combined and mixed up. 1)The arrest was Nov.4,2004, name and company and intent was given within the first 30 seconds. Social sec.# and other personal info. was given, THEN she was arrested2) FBI interrogation was on or around Aug. 4, 2004, over a week after she had given a security guard her business card and showed him all equipment (this is who called DHS/FBI)- she was on public property in both instances.3) the photo shoot for the weekly was in front of a Fed. Bldg., no serious incident occured there.
Good luck finding more info, the police tapes have all been transcribed. Strangely enough, the first policeman wasn't running his tape, or it got lost or something.
If you need help you know where to find me.
Tanya
PS- would you mind sending me the APUG link to your Cali. incident?? I would like to see what you went through, sounds bad. I also had an incident in Paris- a policeman said " Americans!" then gestured slicing his throat and spit on my shoe!
 

Tanya,

Sounds like you've been unlucky in Utah and lucky everywhere else

I've lived in Utah for a long time (transplanted from No Cal) and see some of the overt "normalness" you mentioned. I think people here tend to think for themselves but a lot of the state is very conservative and can sometimes be guilty of a negative judgmental attitude. I think this attitude is oftentimes unintentional, they just don't have any other reference.

Exposure to us not-normals as well as education and patience should go a long ways towards diffusing confrontations. I'm not saying you didn't do any of these things. I wasn't there and don't know the whole story. Just sorry it happened.

Good luck with everything.
 
Aggie,
No veiling here, quite the contrary. I was answering "tourist" at top of pg. 8. Yes, these things can happen anywhere, as I have stated before. These incidents have happened here, so this is what I'm commenting on and APUG is about photography so, I do try to keep it focused. (I also have had things not having to do with photo happen elsewhere)
As far as it being "silly" identification was given, yet there was still no authority for the initial stop, much less arrest, please refer to Utah laws.
Quote:
77-7-15. Authority of peace officer to stop and question suspect -- Grounds.
A peace officer may stop any person in a public place when he has a reasonable suspicion to believe he has committed or is in the act of committing or is attempting to commit a public offense and may demand his name, address and an explanation of his actions.

As a consequence of Hiibel vs. Sixth Judicial District last year, this law presumably does not violate the Fourth Amendment. However, both that decision and the Utah law require that a reasonable suspicion exist, and unless Ms. Ortega de Chamberlin was doing something we haven't been told, it would seem difficult to make that case. Note also that the law does not require the person to show a driver's license; however, it would be necessary to examine Utah court decisions to confirm this interpretation.

The outcome of this lawsuit could establish some legal precedent on whether taking a photograph is grounds for a Terry stop, although I'm sure the the police will try to dismiss the incident as trivial and not even worthy of the court's attention. If the case does go to trial, hopefully someone will remind the jurors of Chief Justice Warren's words from Terry v. Ohio:
Quote:
Moreover, it is simply fantastic to urge that such a procedure performed in public by a policeman while the citizen stands helpless, perhaps facing a wall with his hands raised, is a "petty indignity." It is a serious intrusion upon the sanctity of the person, which may inflict great indignity and arouse strong resentment, and it is not to be undertaken lightly.

It is never pleasant to hear how anyone or their family have been mistreated, sounds by your tone that you probably stood your ground, and that is admirable.

I must go do a shoot now-
Adios,
Tanya

.
 
Menacing tourist-
Agreed, education and exposure does much for diffusion. In this case, having been educated in knowing laws and rights didn't do much.
Hey, have you seen the Salgado exhibit at the Leonardo ( old library)?
See you around town,
Tanya
 
Tanya,

Haven't been up to SL for much fun lately but I did see the Rodney Smith exhibit at the BYU Museum of Art that I found to be wonderful and right up my alley. I still need to take my wife so I can see it again.

Alan.
 
Alan,

I had no idea that show was up there- I will take my husband to see it too. The reason I asked about Salgado is that I was hoping to discuss the subject matter etc. as I have seen it numerous times.
Thanks for the show "tip"- keep me posted as to your shows.
Tanya
 
The Salgado show will be open at least until Dec. 17 and probably longer. It will take about 1-3 hours for the show- 300 photos, many years, many countries. I guess he's teaching some 3 day workshop at the U. Keep me posted.
 
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