Using Vinegar as a Stop Bath

[macfred]

It depends. If it is what we call malt vinegar in the U.K. then there is danger after 35 years of forming a compulsion for constantly entering fish and chip shops.

pentaxuser

Will malt vinegar result in sepia tinted prints ?

 

[pentaxuser]

Will malt vinegar result in sepia tinted prints ?

A good question. Onions kept in malt vinegar for many weeks to pickle them correctly do go brown but to do the same to prints might mean delaying the fix for a long time .

If COVID-19 lasts long enough to prevent foreign holidays in Spain where all we British go for sun as well as British beer and breakfasts then a long bath in malt vinegar every night might work OK on the skin. Probably safer for skin than u.v. rays and cheaper than a holiday in Spain but unless you can hold your breath for a long time you will need a snorkel tube to get your face brown.

You could look good but would the smell make you unattractive to be near? Life's choices have many risks

pentaxuser

 

[pbromaghin]

I saw that my gallon of stop bath had stopped 61 rolls so it seemed to be time to mix up some new. Since the QWD ECN2 process uses vinegar, it also seemed like a good thing to start doing regularly. A search for advice found this thread. Then I realized there are 2 opened bottles of indicator stop concentrate in the basement with enough in them to make 14 more gallons.

 

[Sirius Glass]

And we all know that stop bath with indicator is just so damned expensive! It is almost as expensive as PhotoFlo!

 

[faberryman]

B&H sells a bottle of Kodak indicator stop bath for $6.49 which makes 8 gallons which works out to $0.81/gallon compared to $2.99/ gallon for generic white vinegar at my grocery story. How much you save using white vinegar, if any, depends on how much you dilute it. I know some people like to use grocery store stuff like coffee as developer and white vinegar as stop bath and whatever for fixer, so maybe cost doesn't play into their calculation, which is okay.

 

[Bill Burk]

B&H sells a bottle of Kodak indicator stop bath for $6.49 which makes 8 gallons which works out to $0.81/gallon compared to $2.99/ gallon for generic white vinegar at my grocery story. How much you save using white vinegar, if any, depends on how much you dilute it. I know some people like to use grocery store stuff like coffee as developer and white vinegar as stop bath and whatever for fixer, so maybe cost doesn't play into their calculation, which is okay.

If it were in stock it would be the obvious choice.

Meanwhile I am using 4 ounces white vinegar plus water to make 32 ounces of stop bath.

 

[Down Under]

Careful use of film, also chemistry and paper in my darkroom has always been my way.

By my own reckoning, I'e used three one-liter bottles of Kodak indicator stop bath since I first set up a darkroom - in 1961.

The current bottle I have I bought in 1991. It was my second bottle. In 2001 or 2002 a friend who was dismantling his home darkroom gave me a half full bottle of Ilford stop bath, which I still have, about 20% full. I reckon it will see me out, even if I go on printing one or two times a month as I do nowadays.

Also much more water as a rinse (especially for paper prints), and highly diluted white vinegar-water solution, heaps more, especially in the various makeshift darkrooms I had in the 1970s and 1980s when I was moving around Australia and Asia.

And thats it. I always dilute the mix higher than Kodak or Ilford have ever recommended, and I filter my '"short stop" (also all my used solutions) and re-use them until they are no longer active. All my darkroom chemicals are then (stored in marked bottles and) disposed of at our local recycling center, which has a facility to deal with chemicals, which costs me a token payment. I'm happy to pay it if it means helping the environment to survive. Other photographers, those few I know who still develop and print their own, also do this.

I still have refrigerated and frozen Panatomic-X and Plus-X films I bought ages ago. Also FB paper from the 1990s. All still usable and being used. It's the way I've always worked, but this thread isn't about film or other chemistry, so that's all.

Nothing anyone has said so far in this thread has "influenced" me to change...

 

[pbromaghin]

And we all know that stop bath with indicator is just so damned expensive! It is almost as expensive as PhotoFlo!

From the price tag on one of the bottles, about $.02/roll at 60 rolls. Now I wonder if I should stretch it out till it turns blue to get the most for my money.

And they're sitting right next to the 12 oz. bottle of PhotoFlo with 11 oz. left.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If one is forced to use vinegar instead of stop bath with indicator to afford photography, it is time to find another hobby.

 

[wiltw]

Malt vinegar, so when you are hungry you can dip your fish into your 'stop bath' and keep working.

However, if you do not plan to eat fish and chips in the darkroom, use real Stop Bath

 

[MattKing]

Rather than "superfluous" I would say that the indicator provides an additional useful but not absolutely necessary benefit.
I would say use indicator stop bath if you can, but enjoy the fact that if you run out, you can use vinegar until you can buy some more stop bath.
And if your location makes it difficult to get stop bath, pure white vinegar will work for you.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You realize of course Kodak stop bath is vinegar with indicator, right? And also that the indicator is superfluous?

Not exactly, but then stop bath with indicator is just so damned expensive!

 

[Bill Burk]

Careful use of film, also chemistry and paper in my darkroom has always been my way.

By my own reckoning, I'e used three one-liter bottles of Kodak indicator stop bath since I first set up a darkroom - in 1961.

The current bottle I have I bought in 1991. It was my second bottle.
Nothing anyone has said so far in this thread has "influenced" me to change...

I have less than a half ounce left in my bottle and am anxious to replace it. Meanwhile the vinegar is going to have to do.

 

[Down Under]

There is more than enough vinegar in this thread to keep us all in stop bath for the next century...

 

[RalphLambrecht]

For those who have garnered consistent results from using vinegar in film/print processing, what type (cider, distilled white, etc.) is recommended, and should it be diluted or not?

A 2% solution of white vinegar makes for a perfect stop bath.

 

[georgevp]

Used to use just plain water and plan on doing this again once I get started again. Kodak indicator stop bath stinks and burns holes in my clothes!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Used to use just plain water and plan on doing this again once I get started again. Kodak indicator stop bath stinks and burns holes in my clothes!

And besides Kodak Stop Bath with Indicator is just so damned expensive and makes me use proper laboratory techniques to protect my place and my clothes. I may even have to turn on an exhaust fan for Heavens sake!

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Used to use just plain water and plan on doing this again once I get started again. Kodak indicator stop bath stinks and burns holes in my clothes!

Kodak Indicator Stop Bath is just acetic acid in concentrated form with an color-indicator chemical added. If you can't be careful enough to handle the concentrate (it's pretty nasty right out of the bottle!), and can live without the indicator, using white distilled vinegar is just the same thing; acetic acid. It's just that vinegar is much less concentrated and won't burn holes in your clothes (or your salad) and doesn't smell as strong from the bottle (it'll smell the same when mixed, though; acetic acid is acetic acid; the indicator doesn't have an odor). Mixing the usual 5% acidity white vinegar 1+1 with water gives you a nice 2.5% stop bath.

Doremus