Using sunprint paper in a camera?

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fabulousrice

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You're welcome!
It sounds like - in terms of skills and experience - you're up there and I'm down there
I don't think I even know what the acronyms you're using stand for. But don't waste time telling me, I'm not ready to expose myself to complex chemicals at the moment.

If however there is a simple way to increase sensitivity like Jnantz suggested I will know soon - I emailed the makers.

Thanks for the kind words and I hope you get back to it and show us!
 
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fabulousrice

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I emailed the company that makes it with your suggestion/question and will let you know
 
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fabulousrice

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if there is a kitchen sink chemical ( like vinegar or Vit c or lemon juice or ... ?)

They actually replied very quickly and said they had no idea but shared this interesting link.
This is more technical/processing information i'm used to deal with, but here they use the vinegar to process the print?

I was under the feeling you were saying that I should "prep" the paper with vinegar to make it more sensitive, before taking the picture?
 

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Hi.. yeah great article and website!! ( ez to get lost down the proverbial rabbit hole there and end up having tea with the queen!. )
yup, you can use vinegar bath as contrast control ... .. I wasn't suggesting using vinegar &c in the developing stage but there might be something to treat the paper with to increase its sensitivity before you expose it, so its like a trigger..
I suggested vinegar and lemon juice ( acetic acid / citric acid ) cause from what I remember cyanotypes like an acidic environment so maybe there is a sweet spot using dilute vinegar or lemon juice super dilute (or even tap water if your water is mildly acidic) to put your paper in shoot the paper WET/ DAMP and cut down your in camera exposures
 
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NedL

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If you are starting with pre-made "sunprint" paper, you could try dampening it ( maybe place it on a wet towel or spritz some water onto it and wait for it to soak in evenly )... you don't want to wash it, just dampen the paper. And try putting it into your camera while it is still damp -- then maybe start with a 1 or 2 hours exposure and see if you can see anything. You should try it soon! Otherwise I'm going to... I'm really curious how much it might speed it up.
 

Vaughn

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Exposing damp cyanotypes -- interesting, but probably not.. Let us know. Usually does not work with hand-made stuff that is not completely dry.
 

Nicholas Lindan

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It may be that exposing wet/damp cyanotype paper will cause the image to develop as the paper is being exposed and thus give the illusion of greater speed. Or, it may not.

If the paper is developing as it is being exposed it may result in self masking and a reduction in contrast.
 

Snowfire

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This is essentially an ultraviolet photography topic. With respect to lenses, the community at ultravioletphotography.com has done a lot of testing and discussion of lenses which transmit UV--of course, dedicated quartz lenses do so, but they tend to be scarce and expensive, so much effort has gone into finding other lenses which happen to suffice; and if you do not need transmission below 330nm or so, there are quite a few of those in sizes appropriate for 35mm cameras. Large-format lenses are less explored as a topic, and due to their thicker glass, they tend to do less well in this department; but that does not mean that none of them transmit enough uv to expose a photograph. Moreover, though it peaks around 380nm, cyanotypes have some sensitivity out to 520nm according to this spectrum:

https://us-browse.startpage.com/av/...2067f8c63f05a8b77700310261f0780a737af1bbf5909
 

Donald Qualls

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YouTuber Nicole Small has been running a series recently about making in-camera cyanotype with traditional cyanotype (her goal is to make direct positive cyanotypes this way) and a homemade box camera that uses a largish hand magnifying glass for a lens. She's actually been getting some visible images with LED/Fluorescent studio lights -- I was very surprised to see this result; I wouldn't have though LED, especially, had enough UV to expose the paper in a reasonable time even at f/4 or so.
 

Snowfire

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Most commom LEDs produce essentially zero UV (I know this from photographic experience!) There are special LEDs engineered to emit at shorter wavelengths, but more likely Small is taking advantage of the visible tail of the cyanotype material's sensitivity. As to fluorescent, a little bit of the 365nm mercury line often does make it out of the fixture.
 

Donald Qualls

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I knew that about fluorescent -- but wasn't aware cyanotype reacted at all to visible blue. She might also be augmenting her visible LED panel with the UV one she uses to make cyanotype prints from negatives -- I haven't watched all of those videos in detail.
 

auburnxc

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After reading this thread and some others, I decided to take a stab at it. I've been using Sun Art paper for years (mostly for hand and leaf prints), and only recently thought about placing it in a camera. I'm happy to report that I've had some limited success with it today. I took my grandfather's dusty Yashica A off the bookshelf and loaded it with a cut piece of Sun Art paper to try a 4 minute exposure indoors. No luck. I could immediately tell it was pretty far underexposed. I took it outside and did an exposure at 17 minutes and 30 seconds. It worked! I then tried a 23 minute exposure that also worked pretty well. The taking lens on this camera is a f/3.5 Yashimar 80mm, which I had wide open. It was difficult to dial in a "perfect " exposure time, due to periods of intermittent clouds in central New York today.
 
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fabulousrice

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Can you show the results?
 

auburnxc

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Here’s one from last week. Probably an 18 or 19 minute exposure. I’ll post some other examples when I unpack my gear.
 

auburnxc

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A few more examples.
 

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auburnxc

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In-camera cyanotype (Sun Art Paper), Yashica-A, wide open, 9 hour exposure, partly cloudy day.
 
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fabulousrice

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In-camera cyanotype (Sun Art Paper), Yashica-A, wide open, 9 hour exposure, partly cloudy day. View attachment 323226

This is great! Thanks for sharing.
How come this took 9 hours, versus your previous experiments that took less than an hour each to give results?
Was it different paper, or camera, or sun conditions?
I'd love to be able to make a table of times based on types of paper and aperture, if you're down to help and share some of your data
 

auburnxc

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Great questions. I'll answer as well as I can.

First, I never expected I would get an exposure as good as that example, using Sun Art paper. In-camera cyanotype can be difficult, which is why I think very few people use it that way, and everyone has had a really good explanation as to why the dynamic range of the paper is extremely limited. Frankly, I was completely blown away when I pulled that paper out of the camera.

I think I was able to get much faster exposures (17-20mins) in my early tests because I had WAY more UV light and was pointing the camera at things that did a good job of reflecting it. In the example above, it was cloudy and the composition is mostly things that don't reflect UV light well, so I just let the camera sit there until the sun set.

To answer your other question, I'm not yet at the point where I have any good data. I'm still very much experimenting with the two different types of cyanotype and different cameras. So far, I don't think I have results that would surprise anyone. A good camera with a nice lens, like a Yashica-A, outperforms a Kodak Six-20 Brownie Special, which outperforms a pinhole camera, at least in terms of exposure time. And New Cyanotype on 100% cotton paper tends to get quicker exposures than pre-manufactured traditional cyanotype paper.

Yesterday morning I set more than 20 cameras up outside. It was partly cloudy here and I received a fairly wide variety of results, primarily based on whether the camera was pointing north or south. For the cameras pointing toward the sun, I got some close to interesting silhouettes. For the other cameras, not much of anything. It's been a frustrating project lately because of the short days and overcast weather here in central New York state. My current focus is to try getting good results with pinhole. I've come close a few times, but I think I need a lot more UV light than I have right now, even using New Cyanotype.
 
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Donald Qualls

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I think I need a lot more UV light than I have right now, even using New Cyanotype.

Maybe you should offer tanning bed portraits?
 

auburnxc

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Paint bucket pinhole camera. In-camera cyanotype. ~1 month exposure.
 

auburnxc

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I used the Jacquard set to prepare the paper. Great question about leaving it out for longer. I only opened the can because an animal knocked it out of place. I probably would have left it out longer otherwise. I don't yet have a good handle on reciprocity failure with cyanotype paper, but my sense is that I probably couldn't expose it for the lengths of time people are experiencing with photo paper. For this particular composition, there really isn't anything in the foreground that reflects UV light well, so it may not fill in over time.
 
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