Using Ilford Rapid Fixer to fix Color Film

[Pioneer]

I have been using up some color developing chemistry made by Champion Labs and sold by Jobo Catlabs a while back. It has been working well but for some unknown reason (undoubtedly operator error) I ran out of fixer before I ran out of Developer or Bleach.

I am wondering if anyone has tried Ilford Rapid Fixer to fill in as a fixer for color film. If so, how well did it work out. I initially posted this over on Rangefinder.com and it was suggested I post here as well.

I have reviewed the chemistry showing up in the MSDS information for both products. Champion used Ammonium Thiosulfate and Sodium Sulfite for the original fixer. Ilford Rapid Fixer uses Ammonium Thiosulfate, Acetic Acid, Sodium Bisulfite, and Sodium Acetate. Both are definitely fixer formulas but I am not too certain of the pH of each nor whether that pH would have a major influence.

I could probably mix up my own fixer but I would need to order some Ammonium Thiosulfate. Since I usually use plain old hypo with a little sodium sulfite for preservation with my black & white film I don't have any of the Ammonium version lying around.

The fixer is the last step in the developing process followed by the wash cycle and stabilizer.

I cannot come up with a good reason not to do this but I barely passed High School chemistry so I am certainly capable of screwing this up.

If there is no strong reason not to do this I am going ahead to develop a few rolls of Kodak Ektar tomorrow. If I should not do this at all, let me know before tomorrow.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[RPC]

If this fixer is designed for b&w it should not be used for color as the pH would likely be wrong. PE has said that color fixers can be used for b&w, but not the other way around and IIRC it was due to pH.

 

[Rudeofus]

That's correct, if color fixer pH is not at or close to pH 6.5, there is a chance that dye hues turn out incorrect. My dyes have hues dependent on protonation, this is most prominently seen with indicator dyes.

BTW there are regular B&W fixers with the correct pH, such as Formulary's TF-5 and Tetenal's Superfix Odorless Fixer.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Perhaps adding sodium hydroxide to a fixer working solution until pH 6,5 is reached is a viable option, provided that Pioneer has access to a pH meter.

 

[Lachlan Young]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Pull quotes from the thread from Ron: "The newest fix contains Ammonium Thiocyanate to speed fixing. The newest films are harder to fix." and "The more modern fixer can cause blistering or reticulation when used with some 3rd tier films. This is due to the swell that can be induced by Thiocyanate in some gelatin - hardener combinations."

 

[Rudeofus]

Perhaps adding sodium hydroxide to a fixer working solution until pH 6,5 is reached is a viable option, provided that Pioneer has access to a pH meter.

I have brought standard rapid fixers to pH 6.5 with Ammonia, but their performance was still vastly inferior to a correctly formulated color fixer, and adding Sodium Hydroxide is even worse. If one does this in an emergency, then fixer times must be at least tripled.

 

[Pioneer]

A gallon of TF 5 is on its way from Photo Formulary to help finish of this batch before I pick up another.

Thanks for everyone's input and I am glad I waited before running the film.

 

[RPC]

Since C-41 fixer can be used for both color and b&w, I just use it for everything. It is quite inexpensive, at least it was the last time I bought some a few years ago.

 

[Pioneer]

Thanks.

I am preparing to order some chemicals from Unique Photo as my most recent purchase is running out. I estimate that I have enough left to get around 30 rolls developed (minus the fixer of course.) Depending on how much color I shoot that should last me at least a month, maybe two. PhotoFormulary's TF-5 is relatively inexpensive for what amounts to 4 gallons of fixer.

Not quite as inexpensive as home brew of course. I need to scout around and find a recipe for something I can work up myself. Obviously it calls for Ammonium Thiosulfate and Sodium Sulfite but the exact amounts to mix up, and any additional items that may not show on the MSDS, need to be researched.

 

[RPC]

I have seen plenty of home brew formulas for color-friendly fixers here on APUG over the years. But when I priced them, I don't think there was a lot of savings over C-41 fixer. But, things can change.

 

[Pioneer]

I have seen plenty of home brew formulas for color-friendly fixers here on APUG over the years. But when I priced them, I don't think there was a lot of savings over C-41 fixer. But, things can change.

Everyone has their own reasons for mixing from the actual chemicals. Cost savings is always nice but sometimes just the consistency and known mix time of home brew from batch to batch is worth a bit of hassle.

I also spend two or three months using and developing color film like crazy, and then spend the remaining year working only with black and white. The actual chemicals can usually spend far more time sitting on a shelf waiting for me then the actual kits. Solutions usually expire rather quickly so they are not usable when I am ready for them again.

Of course there is also the feeling of independence that comes from having the material available to mix your own developers if manufacturers decide to discontinue, or overprice, their offerings.

I found and bookmarked a website that outlines the chemicals for all the solutions used for developing C-41 as well as RA-4. The prices listed are certainly not current but the chemicals should still be available. http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/photo/c41_ra4_chemicals.htm

If I can find this so quickly I am sure there must be others out there.

Unique Photo also has the Kodak products for mixing up C-41 chemicals and the prices are not too bad. My research indicates I can get what I need for under $70 US (not including shipping.)

Lots of options for sure.

 

[Rudeofus]

Modern C-41 materials are well hardened and can withstand all C-41 fixers, including this which are loaded with Ammonium Thiocyanate to speed up fixation. There are B&W materials which allegedly reticulate if they are fixed in certain C-41 fixers. TF-5, on the other hand, was specifically designed to work also on unhardened B&W emulsions.

If you only work with color and B&W films from Kodak/Fuji/Ilford, then C-41 fixer is your cheapest and most effective option. TF-5 does well for all color and B&W films.

 

[Pioneer]

Thanks Rudeofus. That is nice to know.

 

[Photo Engineer]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Pull quotes from the thread from Ron: "The newest fix contains Ammonium Thiocyanate to speed fixing. The newest films are harder to fix." and "The more modern fixer can cause blistering or reticulation when used with some 3rd tier films. This is due to the swell that can be induced by Thiocyanate in some gelatin - hardener combinations."

Yes, you can use TF-5 or any pH 6 - 6.5 fix, but since Thiocyanate is present in current C41 fixers due to a difficult to fix film set, I suggest that you use longer fix times. It can't hurt! However, I stress again, using a current C41 fix with some B&W films can cause reticulation. This should not be true of Kodak, Fuji or Ilford B&W products.

PE

 

[Lachlan Young]

However, I stress again, using a current C41 fix with some B&W films can cause reticulation. This should not be true of Kodak, Fuji or Ilford B&W products.

Can speak to the truth of this - works amazingly well on Kodak & Ilford (have used it on quite a bit of TX, HP5+, FP4+, Delta 400 so far) - nice quick fixing, gets the dyes out easily etc - will try Foma at some point & report back.