Using film obtained with a meter roll on a Canon EF

[Rosssiiii]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to test a 24-exposure roll of film on a Canon EF by taking film by the meter onto an empty roll.

The only thing I need to be careful about to avoid problems is making sure the film tab matches the one the factory generates on commercially available rolls of film exactly. Otherwise, the camera might not accept it and give an error when loading.

Are there any other things you need to be careful about with these "homemade" rolls of film to avoid problems?

I'll test it on a Canon 1000Nf

 

[Romanko]

DX code on your empty cassette should match the speed of your film if you intend to use a built-in exposure meter.

 

[loccdor]

You need to make sure the connection between the spool and film is strong enough to handle relatively fast advance and rewind. Make sure no tape is in a position to get stuck in the light trap and snag. Both my Canon EF mount cameras allow manual setting of ISO, I don't know if all models do, maybe some lower end ones do not.

If I try to use a non-DX coded cassette in them (a 27 exposure for example), it's worked fine, it's gone to the end, sensed the resistance and stopped. It gives you extra frames if it's not coded, vs stopping at the coded number of frames otherwise. The only downside is the extra stress on the film/spool connection.

What cassette are you using?

Of course, make sure you don't spool the film backwards, it's easy to do.

 

[Rosssiiii]

You need to make sure the connection between the spool and film is strong enough to handle relatively fast advance and rewind. Make sure no tape is in a position to get stuck in the light trap and snag. Both my Canon EF mount cameras allow manual setting of ISO, I don't know if all models do, maybe some lower end ones do not.

If I try to use a non-DX coded cassette in them (a 27 exposure for example), it's worked fine, it's gone to the end, sensed the resistance and stopped. It gives you extra frames if it's not coded, vs stopping at the coded number of frames otherwise. The only downside is the extra stress on the film/spool connection.

What cassette are you using?

Of course, make sure you don't spool the film backwards, it's easy to do.

i went for a new test, now for the duct tape i'm doing as here:


i don't have at home the bulk film loader so i want just to do a test to see if work fine loading the film in the roll by hands but when i try to take load the camera with that film the camera do something that don't happen uscually with commercial roll of film



These Canon cameras are programmed to load the entire negative into the cassette and take it out again to shoot on the last frame of the negative, maybe this is the problem ?

that is 27 frames film in that roll.

 

[loccdor]

These Canon cameras are programmed to load the entire negative into the cassette and take it out again to shoot on the last frame of the negative, maybe this is the problem ?

Ah okay, I didn't realize it was a reverse winding camera. Most Canon EF mount cameras don't do that.

You probably need to add proper DX coding to the cassette via stickers or foil tape or something. I think you need to indicate to the camera the number of frames it has available.

 

[MattKing]

I doubt that you need DX coding, because I never had any issues bulk loading film for my Canon Rebel 2000 camera that also advanced film that way, and my reusable cassettes have no DX coding.
Can you describe the differences between how the camera behaves with factory loaded and self loaded film?
You reference using "duct tape". That raises concern for me, because the "duct tape" we see around here is probably too thick and squishy for this application.
But your "duct tape" might be different from ours, and there also may be an Italian to English translation issue
I use painter's masking tape applied carefully, making sure that there is some tape, with at least a one cm of the tape adhering to the back of the film, then wrapped completely around the spool, and then at least one further cm adhering to the front/emulsion side of the film.
The only other practical difference is that you may wish to waste the first and last frame each time, until you confirm that the tape you are using doesn't intrude into the first frame, and the leader you leave out of the cassette for loading doesn't leave you with some light striking on the final frame.
As for the tongue of the film protruding outside the cassette, I never found that it was necessary to cut it particularly precisely. My power winding Canon cameras accept anything that approximates the shape of the factory loaded films. It is important though to cut the end between perforations, not to cut in the middle of a perforation.

 

[loccdor]

Have you tried loading a factory-produced film which does not have DX coding in this camera?

 

[koraks]

I think you need to indicate to the camera the number of frames it has available.

No, as @MattKing says this is one of the (few) nice things about this system. The camera winds the film up on the spool inside the camera and increments the frame counter so by the end of it, you have a reliable indication of how many frames you can shoot on the roll.

You reference using "duct tape". That raises concern for me, because the "duct tape" we see around here is probably too thick and squishy for this application.

Good point; these cameras rely on resistance of the film to determine when the end of the roll is used. If for some reason the film doesn't advance readily from the cassette, the camera may think right away that the end of the roll is reached. Going by the sound in the video and the very brief period the motor runs, I get a feeling that the film doesn't come out of the cassette as easily as it should.

 

[loccdor]

That does make sense!

 

[MattKing]

Going by the sound in the video and the very brief period the motor runs, I get a feeling that the film doesn't come out of the cassette as easily as it should.

Ah, the video is of your camera, not something you got from the internet! I misunderstood.
I agree with @koraks .
The other possibility is that the take-up isn't grabbing the film properly when you first load it, but in that case it wouldn't normally work properly with factory loads either.

 

[koraks]

The other possibility is that the take-up isn't grabbing the film properly when you first load it, but in that case it wouldn't normally work properly with factory loads either.

Yeah, also, I expect in that case the camera wouldn't rewind the film back into the cassette. But it's a possibility, too.

 

[MattKing]

Yeah, also, I expect in that case the camera wouldn't rewind the film back into the cassette. But it's a possibility, too.

I believe that when these cameras reach the end of the initial advance, they rewind a short distance and stop.

 

[qqphot]

For what it's worth, my EOS 300V (aka Rebel in the US) which is similar in that it pulls all the film out of the cassette on loading, does not care if the leading end of the film is cut to any particular shape or at all. This is also true of the "pro" cameras EOS-1n/1v at least. I always just leave the end cut off square.

They all still use change in tension to know when to stop pulling. (Except that the pro bodies, if the film has a DX code specifying number of frames, will heed the frame count and consider the roll finished after N frames.)

If you tape the end of the film to the cassette's spool, you'd best make sure it's secure because if it pulls free the camera will pull the whole thing including the loose tape into the take-up side which can be a pain to clean up.

 

[Rosssiiii]

Hello

i have tried using thin tape, and the problem is the same: the Canon 1000F N, instead of moving the film to the right, retracts the film. Haha.

I've tried several times, but nothing works. I don't understand why the first time it managed to wind this same film until the tape came off the spool, and then it wouldn't rewind.

I tested this same roll I created with other Canon EF cameras, and it worked flawlessly on the 50e, 300, and 300v. I don't understand why it doesn't work on the 1000f N... but, well, maybe the camera doesn't handle these rolls well and is particularly sensitive to film tension.

This 1000f N also loads color film without any problems.

 

[MattKing]

Have you tried other re-loadable cassettes?
The problem could be particular to that single cassette.