• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Users familiar with those huge Paterson multi-reel tanks. Do you recommend them?

albireo

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
1,632
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format
I tend to do my processing using either a small (1x120 reel) AP tank or a medium-size (2x120 reels) Paterson inversion tank.

However, I'm currently using my 6x9 cameras a lot with the result that development work is piling up. I have fewer opportunities to do my processing, too. Therefore I'm considering buying one of those big Paterson tanks, which can fit 3, 5 or 8 (I believe) 120 reels:

Super System 4 Multi-Reel Tanks Developing Tanks – Paterson Photographic Equipment

Worldwide Paterson is best known for the high quality darkroom equipment it manufactures here in the UK. In the late 80s it also took over the manufacture of Benbo Tripods and has continued to develop this range of tripods, beloved by both Landscape and Natural History Photographers.
patersonphotographic.com

I think I read somewhere, however, that these give uneven results, due to developer gradients inevitably forming along the height of the column even when using regular inversion/agitation patterns, which (again, no personal experience, just internet hearsay) seems to lead to poor results for the reel sitting on top?

What have people's experiences been with these large tanks ? Does using one of these really lead to some compromises in the results?
 
Last edited:

MARTIE

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
320
Format
Multi Format
I prefer the 3x 120 reel (5× 135) tank over the 5x 120 reel (8x 135) tank.
It is just far more manageable by hand or rotary processing. I have several.
To be honest, I haven't really persisted with the big tank, so its not that I don't believe that it can't work, I'm sure it can.
I'm curious how others tackle them? Twizzle stick?
 

neilt3

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
1,031
Location
United Kingd
Format
Multi Format
I've got one that holds three 120 spools and I haven't had any problems.
I don't use it too often as when I've a batch of film to develop I've usually got several types of film to do requiring different development times .
So I'm typically using smaller tanks that are all pre-loaded , then do a development session .
I've about ten developing tanks in assorted sizes and I typically do all my developing in big batches ( 130 , 135 and 5x4 ) .
If I were using just one type of film emulsion, I'd probably use the big tank more .
For agitation I use the inversion method, whilst rotating the drum .
Works for me , YMMV.

EDIT , regardless of tank size , I hold the lid on whilst inverting , the big tank especially.
I doubt it would fall off , but with the weight of the chemical inside , why take the chance ?
 

loccdor

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2024
Messages
2,620
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
You'd need a pretty deep sink for the tank to be able to fit underneath the faucet on some of the taller ones. For that reason (and having an achy back), I wouldn't go bigger than 3x 120. But 2x 120 meets my needs so I stick with that for now. You also don't find a lot of 2 liter C-41 or E-6 kits. I don't want to be storing and moving gallon jugs all the time. I need a masseuse.

I've used my 2x tank for 220 and it works fine, have also heard of people doing 2 120s per reel and having success with that. Don't know all the details but it might be an option.
 
Last edited:

Pioneer

Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
3,991
Location
Elko, Nevada
Format
Multi Format
My 3x120 tank works fine and I have used it quite a bit over the years. It doesn't leak and the development is even if you keep the temperature stable but you will need a deep sink. Not sure what else you really need. Now days I tend to work with a Jobo and rotation so I don't work with the Paterson that often anymore. But it is still there if I do need it.

I have never used the bigger tank.
 

Sharktooth

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2022
Messages
422
Location
Canada
Format
Medium Format
I've got some Jobo inversion tanks that use larger plastic reels than Patterson. You can load two 120 rolls on each reel. There is a red plastic nubbin that you push into place after loading the first roll. It stops the second roll from overlapping the first. You can get 4 rolls in a 2 x120 reel tank. It works pretty well for me.

I'm not sure if you can get two 120 rolls on a single Patterson reel. If you can, you'll still need to somehow attach the ends so they don't overlap. I don't know of an easy way to do that in the dark, but maybe someone else has figured out a good way to do it.
 

Luckless

Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,367
Location
Canada
Format
Multi Format
I've been debating the larger tank as well. I mostly use the 3-35mm/2-120 reel tanks, but find the slightly larger 5-35mm/3-120 tank to be comfortable to use for a bit of extra processing efficiency. Kind of leaning towards adding a second 5/3 tank over the 8/5 for now just for the flexibility.

With a pair of programmed timers running two tanks in an overlapped timing isn't too much extra effort over just processing one tank, assuming you have the counter space to lay everything out. And honestly developing out of my apartment bathroom I've found I'm kind of up to the point that space for drying and handling film is kind of limiting my daily development throughput more so than total tank capacity anyway.




Sink depth issue can easily be solved with careful use of a hose attachment, or running an Ilford wash method. I prefer the Ilford method for my tanks to give the water a few moments to let the excessive gas bubbles settle out of the column.

I have had mostly good luck on the double loading 120 film on the Paterson reels, but I've also had a few instances of the film walking on me and overlapping for a few frames and spoiling the development. Still haven't figure out a good way to build a clip or safety pin that I trust, so I only use the double load method with Paterson reels on low priority film I'm not going to be too worried about soiling a few frames on.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
55,167
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
I regularly develop two 120 rolls loaded on a single AP clone of a Paterson reel in a 2x120 reel Paterson tank, and reasonably regularly develop four rolls loaded into two reels in the same tank.
It works fine with inversion agitation for the development stage. I'm able to use rotary agitation for the other stages.
If I was using rotary agitation, I would need to tape the end of the first roll to the beginning of the second roll on each reel - because in the developer the film is really slippery, and tends to wander in the reel..
 
OP
OP

albireo

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
1,632
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format
Ah got it - seems I was wrong: those three tanks on the Paterson website are clearly for 2x120 reels (the one I own), 3x120 reels and 5x120 reels (the one Lina Bessonova is using in the video @koraks linked).

Good point about the deep sink @loccdor. This would perhaps be less of a concern for me as I use a dedicated rubber Paterson hose to wash the film and this would easily bend to an 'S' shape between the faucet and the top of the tank.

I wonder what's the required amount of solution for the 5 reel tank. I'm guessing more than 2L to cover all 5 reels. I am going to need a huge mixing jug to prepare the developer. One of those Pimm's jug might do the job

EDIT - just noticed Lina Bessonova uses a 5L mixing jug
 
Last edited:

Paul Howell

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Dec 23, 2004
Messages
10,100
Location
Scottsdale Az
Format
Multi Format
When I last had dedicated darkroom and space I looked at a 8 reel Patterson Tank but dedicated on making my tanks out of PCP tubes with caps, had welder make up a very long T rod so I could pull the reels and move from one tank to next down the line. Had to use a step stool with full loaded. Down side was it took up a lot of room, could not use with room lights on. I used D76 or Clayton F76+ or F60 for developer, standard fix, I made a floating lid by cutting a cap down to size. In my current bathroom size darkroom I use both tall metal tanks and the midsize Patterson and a unicolor film drum with motor base. At my age I dont think I want to lifting a tank with 8 rolls of 120.
 

reddesert

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,603
Location
SAZ
Format
Hybrid
Yes, 3/5/8 reel tanks are counting in 35mm reels, fitting 2/3/5 120 reels. I don't have experience with the larger Paterson tanks, I do have an 8-reel steel tank (5 reels of 120). It has seemed to me that using such a large tank as a daylight tank, pouring solutions in and out would be tedious. Maybe the Paterson tank would be a little less so, as it has more funnel space. Other people have suggested that the 8-reel steel tanks were primarily intended for use as dip-and-dunk vessels in a darkroom, rather than daylight processing and agitation.
 
OP
OP

albireo

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
1,632
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format

On top of that I'm actually wondering about the dynamics of actual inversions with such a huge tank. I tend to mostly do 2 inversions per minute at the start of each minute, and I suspect that getting the developer to evenly reach the surface of all 5 loaded rolls means one has to wait a little before calling the inversion done. You probably want to keep the tank upside down a while until all the liquid reaches to bottom and then upside down again, meaning 2 inversion might actually last me 30 seconds or so?
 

loccdor

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2024
Messages
2,620
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format
500ml per 120/220 reel, so I believe it's 2.5 liters for the 5 reel tank.

As far as the question about development gradients, I've only ever run into problems with that during full stand-development. Semi-stand and normal should be fine.
 

loccdor

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2024
Messages
2,620
Location
USA
Format
Multi Format

Are you just butting the ends of the 120 film so that one pushes the other?
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
55,167
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
loccdor said:
Are you just butting the ends of the 120 film so that one pushes the other?
Click to expand...

No. I advance the first roll all the way in until the leading end reaches the end of possible travel. It is easy to do that by just pushing the film further in after the trailing end clears the ball bearings. I find that the flat surface of the nail in my middle finger works perfectly
The second roll is loaded until the trailing end just clears the ball bearings.
That leaves a useful gap between the two rolls, so any minor wandering doesn't result in overlap.
And once it is in stop bath - and yes, I use acidic stop bath - the film doesn't tend to wander, so rotary agitation doesn't cause problems.
 

Maris

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Messages
1,594
Location
Noosa, Australia
Format
Multi Format
Years ago I regularly used the Paterson System 4 eight reel tank. The negatives came out fine BUT:

I always used a water pre-soak before pouring in the developer to avoid surge or "tide" marks.
Fill and empty times are longer for the big tank and have to be allowed for.
A full tank contains nearly 3 litres of liquid. It is heavy, awkward, and slippery. Don't drop it, it will break.
The Kodak agitation method of 5 inversions with rotation in 3 seconds becomes an intense physical effort.
The 8 reel tank seems ill adapted to the task of doing one or two rolls of film. A second smaller tank is practically required.
Leave nothing to chance. Eight rolls of film are at stake. A colleague once borrowed my 8 reel tank and went fixer first, developer second. Disaster!

I still do multiple rolls of film in a developing session but now use up to three smaller tanks in sequence. It feels easier
 

MCB18

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 16, 2023
Messages
1,372
Location
Colorado
Format
Medium Format

I have a 5 reel tank I only use for color and deving 6 120 reels (or 3 220 rolls) seems like it would be awesome! Haven’t done it though…
 

Cholentpot

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
7,014
Format
35mm
I have a 5 35mm/3 120 tank and it saved me so much time this year. Only issue doing color is the standard C-41 press kit is 1liter which is 4 35mm rolls or 2 120 rolls.
 

Kilgallb

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
833
Location
Calgary AB C
Format
4x5 Format
The only issue I had with my 5-35mm reel tank was when my little brother opened the darkroom door and ruined a weekend of shooting.

Seriously, why risk a single mishap and ruining so much film?
 

MCB18

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 16, 2023
Messages
1,372
Location
Colorado
Format
Medium Format
If all the film was in the tank and it was only a second or two of light, the bottom 3 rolls were probably still good, and the 4th roll near the top was probably salvageable
 

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,922
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
I have the older Paterson System tank that holds up to 5, 120 reels. It's the only time I use the swivel stick It's nice to use, especially when you have dozens of rolls to get through. It's a lot of processing chems, though! If I used that tank a lot, I would probably be happy to use Pyrocat-HD, or XTol-R, for their economy. As a side note, I just developed three 120 colour films in it and they all turned out quite nice.
 
OP
OP

albireo

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
1,632
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format
Kilgallb said:
The only issue I had with my 5-35mm reel tank was when my little brother opened the darkroom door and ruined a weekend of shooting.

Seriously, why risk a single mishap and ruining so much film?
Click to expand...

I load my tanks in a dark bag. I'd have to get a larger dark bag to use one of those larger tanks, admittedly.
 
OP
OP

albireo

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 15, 2017
Messages
1,632
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format

That's good to know Andrew, so that means you never noticed a pattern of varying development quality in the rolls you put in there based on the position they happened to be in while developing?
 

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,922
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
albireo said:
That's good to know Andrew, so that means you never noticed a pattern of varying development quality in the rolls you put in there based on the position they happened to be in while developing?
Click to expand...

That's right. I couldn't see any issues. Normally, I use the figure-8 agitation method for agitation (no inversions). I was worried that it might not work well for that many rolls, so I switched to the swivel stick. Not sure if that had anything to do with it, though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register