Use of Tri-Flow on shutter?

peter k. · Dec 26, 2015

In a post somewhere, it was recommended to use DuPont Teflon dry lubricant for shutter blades, on a CLA, but the local hardware stores does not carry this, but they did have "Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant in a 6 0z aerosol. Says its formulated with P.T.F.E. which I understand is Teflon.

Would this be OK to use?
How would you apply it?
Would have to disassemble the lens again?
Or could you spray some of this into a small clean jar... then use a ??? / Q tip? to apply it to the shutter that is assembled?

Background: This is my first repair of camera and CLA.. Refer to ~
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

The shutter speeds where slow for 100- and 150+ ... but then I really didn't lubricate the leafs.. as the graphite I had was not fine enough, so used a carpenter pencil and gently stroked each leaf. Put it all back together, wondering if I would remembered how it all went back together. Only once, did I have to refer to some pictures I took.

gone · Dec 26, 2015

I would not put anything on them. Period. They're designed to run dry, and whatever you put on them, be it dry or wet, is going to migrate to the optics and to the inside of the shutter mechanism (which also, w/ only a very few exceptions, should run dry).

02Pilot · Dec 26, 2015

The pencil graphite will be more than sufficient. Don't spray anything on it - the carrier oil will be the problem, not the very small amount of PTFE. If the fast speeds are slow, it's more than likely the rotating surface inside the shutter that runs along the barrel; for this surface a microscopic amount of molybdenum grease can be applied locally. If you can see the grease when you're done applying it, you put too much on.

paul ron · Dec 26, 2015

no no no... the blades run dry.

if they arent working, its in need of cleaning again. use denatured alcohol to clean them.

if you did clean them, perhaps the old lube at the pins are binding.

using graphite or pencil will cause tiny loose grains to get on the cell's gap surfaces at the shutter. teflon lube is way too thick for the mating surfaces of the blades... silicon is just as bad.

as mentioned above, if speeds are still off, clean her again. use coleman liquid camp stove fuel, or other brand of the same for a bath wash or parts wash if you completely dissmantle it.

pintles of gears get a tiny tiny pin drop of nyoil. the same oil can be bought in a music store sold as trumpet valve oil.

a very thin smear of lithium grease goes on rub surfaces... and i mean a molecule thin smear... not buttering bread.

wash her again.

peter k. · Dec 26, 2015

Ok.. hmmm.. makes sense that if they run dry.. the hang up maybe the junction of the function where they rub the edge of the barrel.
Now

... pintles of gears get a tiny tiny pin drop of nyoil

Is that the pin??
Oh... of course, there's two pins, one is the drive pin that makes it rotate, on the main pin. So the bigger pin, the one with the slot in it,

is the "pintles of gears" ?

summicron1 · Dec 26, 2015

I know a repairman who is retired now but t says he made a lot of money fixing cameras that were fixed with graphite.

Don't put anything on the blades. If there is a problem have the shutter serviced by someone who knows what he or she is doing.

02Pilot · Dec 26, 2015

As I said in my initial reply in the other thread, I know some don't like the graphite approach. I am certainly not advocating dumping a bunch of powdered graphite into the shutter and calling it done; as I noted, you need to rub in a small amount, blow it out, and keep working the shutter until all the loose graphite has been dislodged and blown free. This simply leaves a trace coating on the blades. I've done dozens of shutters this way and had them in use for years with no loose graphite appearing in the lens and no binding of the shutter.

OP, your latest photo shows simply the blade assembly. Nothing in there gets oiled. The pins of the gears in the geartrain of the shutter, located above that section and including the slow-speed escapement, the trigger, and the speed-selection mechanism (as well as the self-timer, if so equipped) are the places where you may need to apply tiny amounts of suitable oil. When in doubt, use no oil. If you determine that you need to, use less than you think you need. If anything looks wet, you've overdone it.

shutterfinger · Dec 26, 2015

"Tri-Flow Superior Lubricant in a 6 0z aerosol. Says its formulated with P.T.F.E. which I understand is Teflon.

Is a light weight machine oil with teflon in it. DO NOT use it on shutter or aperture blades. I use the non aerosol version on shutter gears, pivots, and similar.
This is the only Teflon usable on shutter and aperture blades http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Non-St...ds=dupont+teflon+non-stick+dry-film+lubricant
The disadvantage is it will cause the blades to stick together until completely dry, 12 to 24 hours, after that they slide like wet ice on wet ice. Gentle care must be used to unstick aperture blades. Apply with a Q tip moistened with the teflon. Operate full aperture range several times over 30 minutes to 1 hour then stop down to f22-f32 and allow for final drying. Apply no more than moderate pressure on the aperture lever and hold it constant until the blades release and operate.

Extra fine powdered graphite should be available at your local hardware store. It works almost as well as the teflon but will leave small trace amounts on lens cells until all excess from the inaccessible places has been dislodged from the shutter. Apply with a Q tip. Remove all cotton fibers from the shutter at the end of treatment.

Either of these will help a worn shutter. NO other products are known to me to be usable on aperture and shutter blades.

Sirius Glass · Dec 26, 2015

02Pilot said:
The pencil graphite will be more than sufficient. Don't spray anything on it - the carrier oil will be the problem, not the very small amount of PTFE. If the fast speeds are slow, it's more than likely the rotating surface inside the shutter that runs along the barrel; for this surface a microscopic amount of molybdenum grease can be applied locally. If you can see the grease when you're done applying it, you put too much on.

I bought my Graphic and Graflex from a retired Graphic and Graflex repair man and he recommended lock graphite only for the Graphic and Graflex shutters.

02Pilot · Dec 26, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
I bought my Graphic and Graflex from a retired Graphic and Graflex repair man and he recommended lock graphite only for the Graphic and Graflex shutters.

Did he offer a reason for this? It seems peculiar absent some specific aspect of the design that makes it suitable for those, but not other, shutters.

Sirius Glass · Dec 26, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
I bought my Graphic and Graflex from a retired Graphic and Graflex repair man and he recommended lock graphite only for the Graphic and Graflex shutters.

02Pilot said:
Did he offer a reason for this? It seems peculiar absent some specific aspect of the design that makes it suitable for those, but not other, shutters.

I cannot supply more information. It was relative to the cameras and lenses that he sold me. We did not discuss any other cameras or lenses. Nor did we talk about cameras in general. Therefore I only stated what I know for sure.

shutterfinger · Dec 26, 2015

use denatured alcohol to clean them.

won't that strip the factory bluing off. won't it damage hard rubber shutter blades?

I know a repairman who is retired now but t says he made a lot of money fixing cameras that were fixed with graphite.

probably the 'ol stand by put graphite in lighter fluid and submerge the shutter in the slurry shade tree get it going trick used on those shutters.
Any shutter that is between its 1000 to 10,000 trip cycles most likely does not need any blade lubrication.
I have serviced many makes of shutters that were probably in their 50,000+ trip cycles that improved at least 1/3 stop by rubbing graphite into the blades while it was disassembled. My Graphic 1000 shutter still runs in tolerance at all speeds 15 years after servicing by me and using graphite on the shutter blades.

I bought my Graphic and Graflex from a retired Graphic and Graflex repair man and he recommended lock graphite only for the Graphic and Graflex shutters.

The renowned repair person, from the Graflex.org help board, web site is no longer active nor is his email which he posted in many of his posts. He possibly is no longer with us. Is this who you bought your cameras from?

The dry film teflon is a more recent product and would not have been available several years ago. It too, like all lubricants used in shutters, should be used sparingly. Graflex recommends graphited grease in the bushings of its focal plane shutters.

Sirius Glass · Dec 26, 2015

shutterfinger said:
The renowned repair person, from the Graflex.org help board, web site is no longer active nor is his email which he posted in many of his posts. He possibly is no longer with us. Is this who you bought your cameras from?

Yes, Bert Saunders. I emailed him until he could not longer repair cameras. My last email to him was 21 October 2011.

shutterfinger · Dec 27, 2015

I check his email/web site a year or two ago and found them inactive. A search of newspaper obituaries in the Bakersfield, Ca. area was fruitless. A name search showed its a common name in the Southern California area.

BrianShaw · Dec 27, 2015

October 2014

peter k. · Dec 27, 2015

May he rest in Peace.. and not be bothered with faulty lenses and shutters... as we are, as we try to capture the image.

peter k. · Dec 27, 2015

OK.. thanks for all your replies... this its a great vehicle to learn on... and exciting... as what I have, is a Nothing to Lose Camera... as it was not functioning at all.. not even the trigger... soooo... will give it another cleaning, and since the Dupont Teflon will take a week or so to get here, but the hardware store did have fine Graphite Lubricant.. will give that as a next try.

But to verify.. knowing nothing, but it would seem common sense, not to very lightly grease the barrel, with graphite aboard on the leaves, but perhaps graphite the barrel lightly with a rub also?
Any thoughts..

shutterfinger · Dec 27, 2015

Barrel lens or shuttered lens? If shuttered, what shutter?
GRT ( general rule of thumb)-barrel lens clean aperture and operating mechanism. Some vintage barrels had a trace of lubricant on the ring to barrel that would migrate to the aperture leaves after 50+ years. Relube as from factory.
Shutter-light grease at speed ring to center barrel, speed ring to outer case, speed ring to top cover, inside if slots that operate levers and pins.

Mr. Saunders is probably socializing with Mr. Folmer and Mr. Schwing.

peter k. · Dec 27, 2015

shutterfinger said:
Mr. Saunders is probably socializing with Mr. Folmer and Mr. Schwing.

Do you think it's about Camera's and lenses ... or... the clarity of the image all around them ...

peter k. · Dec 27, 2015

Shuttered lens.. on a Yashica YK and its a Copal Yashinon 1:2.8 f-4.5cm lens.. Inside with the outer lens screwed off, it states Copal -SV

I'm a newbie repair CLA.. and total lost with

Shutter-light grease at speed ring to center barrel, speed ring to outer case, speed ring to top cover, inside if slots that operate levers and pins.

Ok gonna gets some picts together of lens apart for clarification ..

peter k. · Dec 27, 2015

John Koehrer · Dec 27, 2015

RE: shutter blades I completely agree with paulron. The blades and BOR are designed to run dry.
Part of your gunk problem just needs a tedious cleaning with Naptha IE: lighter fluid.
A Q-tip dampened in Naptha used to wipe the oil off. over and over(I said it was tedious didn't I?).
Eventually you can operate the blades with no sign of oil. That's when you're done.

Flooding works but without drying the shutter out can or will just be temporary.

Wiping the speed cam(speed cam) with a miniscule dab of grease both inside and outside where pins or levers ride is about the only lube you need on it. A couple of others said "if you can see it, it's too much".
I couldn't agree more.

shutterfinger · Dec 27, 2015

Lighter fluid is not a good cleaning agent. It contains other additives and will leave a light oily residue if used in sufficient quantity. Naphtha, its main ingredient, is used in many contact cleaners and degreasers. 90% Isopropyl Alcohol works well and is mixed with Naphtha in some cleaners.
The speed ring is the part you turn to set the shutter speed. Some shutter cases have a cylinder in the center of the case, this one does not. Some shutters have a top plate that attaches to the main case, either way its the section the lens cells screw into and the outer edge where it contacts the speed ring only if the speed ring slips on over it. Clearer than thin mud?
What make of shutter?

Line tool from main plate to plate and case do not show up.

peter k. · Dec 27, 2015

shutterfinger said:
What make of shutter?

see post #20

02Pilot · Dec 27, 2015

peter k. said:
View attachment 121810

None of that gets lubricated. Lubrication is selectively to the parts above that. See this link for some photos of the Copal SV; there are links to other photo sets for the MXV, which is similar: http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=lynx5000

Use of Tri-Flow on shutter?

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