Use lens in shutter on Graflex 3A?

steven aimone · Jul 4, 2022

Ok, so I recently acquired a Graflex 3A

It has many issues but the primary on is I cannot works the aperture and speed settings for the curtain shutter as the buttones/levers are'nt all functional

So until if/when I am able to repair/restore the apparatii, it occurred to me that I might bypass the curtain shutter and replace the 3A's lens with a "lens in shutter."
I have a Speed Graphic with which I do this:

The curtain shutter gets set wide open and then the shutter in the lens takes over.

SO, QUESTION:
Can this be done on the Graflex 3A. If so, how to determine what specifications the replacement lens must adhere to? And would other adjustments need to be made.
Thank you all in advance for your time and attention.
Steve

Sirius Glass · Jul 4, 2022

See the threads in graflex.org under the forum and also the technical camera files. You will need to have the rear shutter curtain fully opened.

Dan Fromm · Jul 4, 2022

The Graflex 3A is a fixed lens camera with a roll film back. To get the full focusing range you'll want a lens with approximately the focal length of the original issue lens on it. If the body's ground glass is in register with the film plane you should have no focusing problems with a replacement lens.

The 3A shoots 3 1/2 by 5 1/2 on #3A film, which I believe has long been unavailable. Not clear that you can use sheet film with it or that you can modify it to use 120 film.

Hunter_Compton · Jul 4, 2022

Dan Fromm said:
The Graflex 3A is a fixed lens camera with a roll film back. To get the full focusing range you'll want a lens with approximately the focal length of the original issue lens on it. If the body's ground glass is in register with the film plane you should have no focusing problems with a replacement lens.

The 3A shoots 3 1/2 by 5 1/2 on #3A film, which I believe has long been unavailable. Not clear that you can use sheet film with it or that you can modify it to use 120 film.

3A is film size 122 by Kodak nomenclature, discontinued in 1972, with the last film produced expiring in 1974. At that point in time the only film produced in that format was Verichrome Pan. Interestingly, at least to me, 122 film was originally offered in both 10 and 6 exposure rolls in the 1910s and 20s, but by the 1960s and 70s, was only offered in 6 exposure rolls.

peter k. · Jul 4, 2022

3.5 x 5.5 film was called post card film and yes was roll film.
We converted our old Brownie to use 120 film and also have used a single sheet of 4x5 narrowed down to 3.5 in it.

For info here is the manual for the camera on how to use it to see if your properly setting it up to fire

https://www.cameramanuals.org/pdf_files/3-a_graflex_autographic.pdf

jimgalli · Jul 5, 2022

You could put turn signals and brake lights on a John Deere 2 Cylinder Model 70 tractor and drive it to New York . . . . . but it isn't very practical.

steven aimone · Jul 5, 2022

Dan Fromm said:
The Graflex 3A is a fixed lens camera with a roll film back. To get the full focusing range you'll want a lens with approximately the focal length of the original issue lens on it. If the body's ground glass is in register with the film plane you should have no focusing problems with a replacement lens.

The 3A shoots 3 1/2 by 5 1/2 on #3A film, which I believe has long been unavailable. Not clear that you can use sheet film with it or that you can modify it to use 120 film.

Most appreciated, Dan. I'd love to use sheet film in it but it seems possible only by loading one sheet of custom cut at a time. Will investigate. Thanks again...

steven aimone · Jul 5, 2022

peter k. said:
3.5 x 5.5 film was called post card film and yes was roll film.
We converted our old Brownie to use 120 film and also have used a single sheet of 4x5 narrowed down to 3.5 in it.

For info here is the manual for the camera on how to use it to see if your properly setting it up to fire

https://www.cameramanuals.org/pdf_files/3-a_graflex_autographic.pdf

Hi Peter K and thanks for the feedback. I have the 3D printed converters for using 120 film in an Ansco No. 3A Folding Buster Brown... works like a charm (though I'd live to be able to coax the original postcard size negatives out of it.

steven aimone · Jul 5, 2022

jimgalli said:
You could put turn signals and brake lights on a John Deere 2 Cylinder Model 70 tractor and drive it to New York . . . . . but it isn't very practical.

Perhaps the notion should be summarily dismissed. But not sure why; what would be impractical about getting images on 120 film? Certainly not what it was designed for, that's for sure. But impractical? Please explain further if you would...

Don_ih · Jul 5, 2022

If you could get 120 to work in it, you might like the results. You need to make some spool extensions and build-in the back so the film sits flat. You'd get 5.5x2" negatives. Who wouldn't like that?

steven aimone · Jul 5, 2022

Don Heisz said:
If you could get 120 to work in it, you might like the results. You need to make some spool extensions and build-in the back so the film sits flat. You'd get 5.5x2" negatives. Who wouldn't like that?

Hi Don and thanks for the response. I have the spool extensions, acquired for use in an Ansco No. 3A Folding Buster Brown. But coming up with a build-in for the back is new to me. Ideas?

jimgalli · Jul 5, 2022

OK, mirror down for focus. See what you want. Close the shutter. Don't move while you click the release for the mirror to go up, stop down the lens, set the correct speed, take your image, hopefully not a speeding DeDion race car, remember to advance the film 3 1/2 turns or 7 half turns if that works better for you. Mirror back down. Begin again next shot. 2 1/4 X 5 1/2 is attractive but a 180mm is hardly a wide field view. Totally do-able. BTW as I just went up to town to get my bride some meds at the pharmacy I stopped for a minute and spoke to some folks in a Model T Tudor Sedan with the stencil on the cowl, Model T Coast to Coast. So, yes, we do what we do because we want to do it. A 180 Symmar would be a fine choice. 165 Xenar if you could find one in a good working shutter. Or 7 1/4" Velostigmat in a Betax.

Don_ih · Jul 6, 2022

steven aimone said:
Hi Don and thanks for the response. I have the spool extensions, acquired for use in an Ansco No. 3A Folding Buster Brown. But coming up with a build-in for the back is new to me. Ideas?

Just something for the film to press against horizontally, to keep it on the film plane. Frankly, tape would probably work.

Donald Qualls · Jul 6, 2022

jimgalli said:
OK, mirror down for focus. See what you want. Close the shutter. Don't move while you click the release for the mirror to go up, stop down the lens, set the correct speed, take your image, hopefully not a speeding DeDion race car, remember to advance the film 3 1/2 turns or 7 half turns if that works better for you.

Or just lock the lens shutter open on T (or B with a locking cable release) and use the mirror and focal plane shutter as Graflex intended. Including stopping down manually at the end of focusing, and before composing/panning...

Don_ih · Jul 6, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Or just lock the lens shutter open on T (or B with a locking cable release) and use the mirror and focal plane shutter as Graflex intended. Including stopping down manually at the end of focusing, and before composing/panning...

His Graflex seems to not have a functional focal-plane shutter.

Donald Qualls · Jul 6, 2022

Don Heisz said:
His Graflex seems to not have a functional focal-plane shutter.

Ah, missed that, I thought it was a bad aperture in the camera's lens.

steven aimone · Jul 7, 2022

Don Heisz said:
Just something for the film to press against horizontally, to keep it on the film plane. Frankly, tape would probably work.

Grazie!

grat · Jul 9, 2022

steven aimone said:
It has many issues but the primary on is I cannot works the aperture and speed settings for the curtain shutter as the buttones/levers are'nt all functional

Well, the aperture's going to be on the lens, not the focal plane shutter. So what in particular doesn't work? If the shutter is intact, and moves freely, chances are the mechanical bits (the buttons/levers) are fixable.

Sirius Glass · Jul 9, 2022

Speed Graphics' and Graflexes' focal plane cameras have slit with and tension choices for shutter speeds. There should be a table on the side of the camera. Now it is time for you to learn to build a new shutter or have some one build it for you.

Use lens in shutter on Graflex 3A?

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