Updates to rules for Classified Ads

[David A. Goldfarb]

Just to clarify a few established norms and practices in the Classified Ads section, we've updated the rules as follows:

***Classified Ad Rules***

To reinforce what the site terms state, this classifieds system is "use at your own risk".

You must be a Subscriber to post classified ads, subscription information can be found by (there was a url link here which no longer exists) Members are still welcome to browse ads and contact ad owners regarding items.

Please refrain from posting any ads linking back to Ebay auctions or any other system outside of the APUG classifieds. APUG classifieds are intended for member to member sales. This is not a link farm to ebay listings and other business entities. Any such ads may be removed. This rule is in place to prevent abuse of our classifieds system.

At the same time, we realize that sellers want to be able to sell their items in a reasonable time frame, so if after a reasonable interval (typically about a week), an item hasn't gotten a fair offer and the seller wishes to move the item to auction, it is permitted to link to the auction as a comment to the existing ad. Auction links or references in the first post of a new thread are not permitted, and such threads will be removed.

Transactions facilitated by the classifieds are arrangements between the seller and the purchaser, and the terms of sale are a matter to be determined by those participants. While the community norm is to keep things simple--the seller names a price, and the buyer pays the price--there are no rules prohibiting calls for "best offer" just as there is no prohibition against potential buyers making offers lower than the advertised price. If sellers want to structure the sale in some other creative way, as long as it is not disruptive to the forum, it is up to potential buyers to accept or reject the terms of sale.

Persons not interested in a particular transaction are asked to refrain from interfering with classified sales by commenting unnecessarily. If you believe that an ad violates the rules, please use the "report thread" button (the triangle with the exclamation mark) to notify the moderators. Do not comment in the thread. If you believe that an item is overpriced, then that is a matter for the seller to figure out when it doesn't sell.

APUG Classifieds are primarily used in line with the site charter (for traditional equipment and supplies). If you have any items that are digital (cameras, scanners, software, etc.) you can place them in the "Anything Goes" subforum. Please do not post ads for digital items in the "For Sale" or "For Trade" subforums.

APUG does not endorse agreements that violate international customs laws and regulations or the terms of service of any external payment service used to facilitate sales through the classifieds.

Thank You.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

There are no real changes in policy here, but a few points to note, about which there often seems to be confusion--

We don't want to be a link farm for eBay, but if your item doesn't sell after a week or so and you want to move it to eBay, it's okay to post a link to the auction as a comment to the existing thread.

It is not necessary for the seller to name a price, though it's a nice thing to do.

Let's not have potshots from the peanut gallery please. If you think the price is too high, but aren't planning to make an offer yourself, then the market can decide that without heckling. If you think an ad violates the rules, just like any thread, please report it to the moderators, rather than commenting in the thread.

If you want to cover your sales overhead aside from shipping (packaging, driving to the post office, transaction fees, etc.) we'd recommend doing it like any other business and incorporating that into the cost of the item. Be aware that you may be violating your agreement with your payment service, if you ask the buyer to cover transaction fees. It is also perfectly reasonable for one party in the transaction to refuse to do something illegal, like misreporting customs status or value.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

That sounds all very reasonable. One thing I've never been able to figure out though, is how to lock my classified ad thread after the item has sold? Can you give us a reminder?

 

[Leigh B]

It is not necessary for the seller to name a price, though it's a nice thing to do.

I would suggest making a price mandatory, as other such sites require, rather than optional.

If optional, you're just running an auction site.

- Leigh

 

[Dinesh]

It would be nice if certain prolific sellers, I can think of one in particular, would donate a small percentage to APUG.

The amount of resources, both human and financial, that are required to keep this site running are larger than you may imagine.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'm a bit unsure as to how a regular member/subscriber can lock a thread in classifieds, so I'll let Sean or someone else field that one. If you have an "administrative" tab in the top right corner menu above the first post in the thread, there should be a "close thread" option there. I think that's how it should work, but logged in as a moderator, I'm not positive.

We have no problem with potential buyers making offers on "best offer" sales, as long as it doesn't become disruptive. Some have even proposed auction style sales (not necessarily with eBay rules--for instance the seller could decide to take the last bid that remains unchallenged for 24 hours, or with other rules), and the problems that people predicted have just never come about. The truth is, if people want an auction, they prefer the established rules and systems of an auction site, and we can't provide that. If the terms of sale are too onerous, no one will buy. If no one wants to do the research necessary to make a fair offer--which I always do whether the seller names a price or not--then sellers will figure out that this strategy is unsuccessful. The market seems to be regulating itself fairly well, so as long as it doesn't impinge on the culture of the forum, we'd prefer fewer rules to more.

The donation has always been voluntary. It's up to Sean to decide if that should change.

One thing that's come up that we haven't made a rule about is "bumping" threads. Personally I find this a bit silly, and it's been mentioned by a number of users as a source of irritation. For now, we'll just recommend that if you want your ad to have more visibility, or to be more successful, then provide more information or new information, if you're going to comment on your own ad--try better photos, examples of what the lens or camera can produce, a demo video, offer extra incentives like free shipping or accessories, or try a lower price.

 

[tkamiya]

I would also like to see some kind of guidelines for "bump"ing. I had two ads of my own that got bumped down as a result so fast that in few hours, it was not on the first page. I think it's unfair. There are small number of posters whokeeps bumping theirs for two pages or more and very rapid successions. That's excessive.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I would suggest making a price mandatory, as other such sites require, rather than optional.

If optional, you're just running an auction site.

- Leigh

After learning years ago that most people that do "make offer" ads are hoping for higher than market price I ignore them always.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Things like this need to stop, same guy both times, very limited participation with this site other than this:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Dinesh]

The donation has always been voluntary. It's up to Sean to decide if that should change.

Sean is too nice a guy to call these people out.

I, as anyone who knows me can attest, am not.

 

[Leigh B]

I'm a bit unsure as to how a regular member/subscriber can lock a thread in classifieds...

There's a yellow banner at the top of every classified ad that tells you how to lock it.

- Leigh

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I would also like to see some kind of guidelines for "bump"ing. I had two ads of my own that got bumped down as a result so fast that in few hours, it was not on the first page. I think it's unfair. There are small number of posters whokeeps bumping theirs for two pages or more and very rapid successions. That's excessive.

Things like this need to stop, same guy both times, very limited participation with this site other than this:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

You're right, totally excessive. That would count as disruptive to the forum.

Please report it next time you see it. There aren't enough moderators to check every thread.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

There's a yellow banner at the top of every classified ad that tells you how to lock it.

- Leigh

Thanks, Leigh.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

There's a yellow banner at the top of every classified ad that tells you how to lock it.

- Leigh

Call me stupid, but I don't see any yellow banner. Screenshot attached.

 

[Leigh B]

The yellow banner has a little box at the right side, like other system notifications, that will dismiss/disable it.

I don't know if that is thread-specific or a general preference setting.

- Leigh

 

[BradS]

That sounds all very reasonable. One thing I've never been able to figure out though, is how to lock my classified ad thread after the item has sold? Can you give us a reminder?

goto your classified "For Sale" posting,
in the top right corner, click the drop down menu button labelled "Administrative"
The radio button "Close Thread" should already be selected
click "proceed".

This administrative menu only appears on for sale threads that you have started.

All done.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

goto your classified "For Sale" posting,
in the top right corner, click the drop down menu button labelled "Administrative"
The radio button "Close Thread" should already be selected
click "proceed".

This administrative menu only appears on for sale threads that you have started.

All done.

But that's the thing: I don't have an Administrative button. See screenshot of my ad.

 

[hoffy]

Another forum I participate on only lets you post the ad, edit the original and close the ad - no bumping allowed, all discussions are to be done via PM's. I too don't like the over bumping.

Also, maybe we should have another sub section for 'ConUS only' sales....... hat, coat, I'm outta 'ere....

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

But that's the thing: I don't have an Administrative button. See screenshot of my ad.

Maybe there's a time limit. Sean should know.

 

[BradS]

But that's the thing: I don't have an Administrative button. See screenshot of my ad.

Hmmm....I give. No idea. As David said, perhaps, Sean knows?

I've attached a screenshot of one of my classified postings for reference. The administrative button is right there next to the thread tools button...and, yeah, I see that the administrative button is missing on your screen shot.

????

 

[zsas]

Maybe the rights for those in the council are not like subscribers and mods...

For sure a Sean question at this point as that is the only overt difference from Michel and Brad

 

[Leigh B]

What the heck is a 'council'?

- Leigh

 

[removed account4]

It would be nice if certain prolific sellers, I can think of one in particular, would donate a small percentage to APUG.

The amount of resources, both human and financial, that are required to keep this site running are larger than you may imagine.

+1

and no buyer pays paypal fees ...
it is against paypal policy to force a buyer
to pay for the fees that allow a seller to user the service.

if they don't want to use the service, then use a different way to collect $$ ...

and no buyer asks sellers to lie on customs forms.

 

[BradS]

What the heck is a 'council'?

- Leigh

The council is made up of people who have been around here for a while and understand the community. They represent us...in decisions regarding...well, ettiquette, censure, etc....they help the moderators moderate (without actually having the power to moderate). In a sense, the council can be thought of as adding moderation to the moderators.

The creation of the council recognizes the difficulty of moderating such a large and diverse community.

 

[BradS]

+1

and no buyer pays paypal fees ...
it is against paypal policy to force a buyer
to pay for the fees that allow a seller to user the service.

if they don't want to use the service, then use a different way to collect $$ ...

and no buyer asks sellers to lie on customs forms.

++1 !!!!