Unusual 120 film split

[Tom Kershaw]

Hand processed in a Paterson Super System 4 tank recently:

Has anyone else experienced this kind of film split? I looked for the other chunk of film in the camera, but I presume the damage occurred within the tank, however I didn't notice the "spare" film in the tank.

Tom

 

[Cainquixote]

I've had problems with hp5 recently. It tears when i remove the tape. Happened on 3 out of the last 4 rolls. I really like the film but i won't shoot it anymore.
Fuji, foma, kodak haven't torn when i removed the tape.

 

[JMC1969]

I would say you possibly have a crack in the reel or something stuck on it. When you are loading it, the end will hang up and your roller ball already has hold of the film and tries to push forward anyway and tears the film. I've had it happen here at the lab before. Luckily it was my roll of film and not a customers. Have you dropped a reel in the past or has it sat in fixer for a long period of time?

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The reel wouldn't have sat in fixer for a long time, but it is likely to have been dropped - I've owned it from new.

Tom

 

[wclark5179]

Were you hungry?

Just kidding!

Could of it got this wound when winding on the spool? The stainless I use has four pices that go across the reel down the middle then onto the other side of the reel. Every so often (maybe too much wine) I goof up and the film gets caught and puts a little tear like yours if I'm not careful. Haven't had it happen for awhile, but I'm thinking maybe I'm at an angle with the film and should be straight on when winding.

Just took a peek and notice one of the pieces welded to the reel sticks up, I'd guess 1/16", beyond the reel. I'm gonna to file it down. Maybe the film could get caught on it if position incorrectly whilst putting on the reel. Maybe it wasn't the wine after all. Then again....

Just a thought.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Bill,

The Paterson Super System 4 plastic reels utilize ball bearings which I suppose could catch against the film and rip it. Perhaps I've just been fortunate not to experience this problem before.

Tom

 

[Ian Grant]

Tom, I've used Paterson reels for well over 40 years and they've never caused a problem.

You could contact Ilford it's just possible the problem arose during film slitting.

Ian

 

[wclark5179]

Oops. Sorry. Should have read that in your original post.

I've got Paterson reels & tanks and haven't experienced the tear.

Maybe you're on to something as if the film got stuck somehow the bearings tried to move the film forward with your result.

Some film seems to be pretty thin. I've got some old TMY, expired in '02, that seems to have a thicker base/plastic than some of the newer films.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Bill,

I haven't used the original T-Max 400 film, but have recently started to use TMY-2 roll film which does seem to be coated on a noticeably thicker base, making negatives easier to handle in the darkroom.

Tom

 

[JMC1969]

Something tells me that I really don't need to explain my earlier comment, but I felt the need to anyway. So, use it or ignore it, here it is.

.. you possibly have a crack in the reel. When you are loading it, the end will hang up and your roller ball already has hold of the film and tries to push forward anyway and tears the film.

Generally when one of these reels are dropped, it will crack in one of two places. Outer edge or inner edge as seen circled in the first image below. On occasion, it will crack in the center as seen on the second image. (notice that this reel is NOT a Patterson brand reel).

When this happens, your film will load fine until it gets to the crack and then slips an edge into the crack and stops. You as the loader can't see this happen and continue to load as the roller ball bearing grabs to push the film forward, the ball itself will tear the film. Most of the time the force is enough to push the film on the straight and narrow again so you are able to continue loading the film. Once the leading edge of the film is past the crack it generally is not a problem, so except for a short glitch in the middle of your loading, you will be unaware of it. I have a personal roll with a notch out of it just like this and I know this is what happen to mine.

Hope this wasn't a waste of your time and you get some use from it.

Cheers,
Jody

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Jody,

I don't think any of my Paterson reels are cracked as shown in your photos but I'll check.

Tom

 

[ricksplace]

Gotta watch those darkroom gnomes. Take a bite out of your negs when you're not lookin.

 

[Martin Aislabie]

Tom, I've used Paterson reels for well over 40 years and they've never caused a problem.

You could contact Ilford it's just possible the problem arose during film slitting.

Ian

It looks like that to me too

Martin

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear Tom,

Thanks for the PM :

Never say never... but highly, highly unlikely to be in manufacturing:

One of the QC steps during and after finishing ( 4 times ) is that the film weight is checked
and the tolerance is tiny, so if anything is left out ( such as the sealing tapes ) the film is
rejected, that piece of base ( if it was done during manufacture ) would undoubtedly have
triggered a rejection.

Best thing to do is send it to me and I will have it checked out.

As to Cainquixote : Same goes for you, send it to me to have it checked: I have processed 120 film ( ILFORD and KODAK ) for nearly 40 years and have yet to tear a film....you have to apply significant pressure to do so, it may be a technique issue : little tip is when removing the tape from the film :

'Lift the edge of the tape, pull it back in the reverse direction not lifting it more than
5mm from the film surface and do it very, very slowly ( why ?)

A) Less chance of any adhesive residue ( although special adhesive is used )
B) Less chance of static electricity discharge, you will see a slight residual glow if you pull
the tape too quickly
C) You should not tear the film ( ever)

Regards : Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology limited :

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Simon,

Thanks for the response.

Tom.