Unperforated film with 35mm SLR

McFortner · Aug 29, 2009

You could always use it to respool 828 film rolls or 126 cartridges. Both use the same width film.

Michael

craigclu · Aug 29, 2009

I've got an old Konica Autoreflex T that's rigged for non-perfed film. It's got an intermittent shutter and likely needs a cleaning. I've never used it and likely won't. If someone wants it, they can have it for the postage. It uses a shaft with 2 rubber friction rings in place of a sprocketed shaft. The camera doesn't look bad but has a slight lifting of the leatherette on one side of the front. Contact me by direct email if you'd like a new plaything.....

Nano_Burger · Mar 4, 2011

I've also wanted to use unperforated film in a 35mm camera. I've modified a few by wrapping electrical tape around the toothed spindle until the it becomes a friction drive instead of a sprocket drive. Will work, but you have to put up with non-standard spacing which sucks for scanning. Anyway, the best way is to get a EOS 10s or EOS 10qt. It does not require sprocket holes for film positioning and will give you very nicly spaced exposures. Currently (2011), these bodies go for less than peanuts on eBay. I got 1 for $20 and one recently for $1. Shipping is on top of that, but still very good for a great advanced camera body. However, a deteriorating bumper in the camera causes the infamous tar on the shutter blades. Can be cleaned easily enough with napthea. Just thought I'd share this for the good of the community.

dynachrome · Mar 5, 2011

I have a Konica Autoreflex which was modified to work with unperforated film. Whenb I get arount to having it serviced I will look for some unperforated film for it. This would give me 24X36mm images. If you modify a roll film camera to accept unperforated film you will get an image 35mm wide and as long as your format will allow. 6X6 would give you a 35X60mm image size.

David Lyga · Mar 17, 2011

Yes, I wrote about this a while back. I have Kodak ImageLink microfilm in 35mm width. It CAN be run though a manual 35mm camera but with much consternation. In the dark you manually load the film onto the take-up side but NOT attached to the take-up spool. Leave it loose. Because it is rather tough to load much this way you will not get more than about one foot into this compartment. (Lead the film into the space between the take-up spool and the right edge of the camera and work it around to the other side of the take-up spool until most of the foot is wrapped around the take-up spool.) Now simply let the film glide over the sprockets and over the film aperture and tape the end onto a spool you insert into the compartment that is normally for a cassette of film. Close the back. Now cock the shutter and nautually the film does not move but it is already set for the first exposure. For the NEXT exposure simply turn the film rewind lever clockwise about one turn (you will have to determine, beforehand, how much of a turn is needed to advance one frame.) In this way you have about six to eight frames per load.

For processing, start with developing for one half the time used for Ilford Pan F and if that is still too much contrast dilute the dev. As far as EI (speed): I find that and EI of two stops slower than Pan F (about 6) is best as this film is VERY unforgiving with over exposure. You WILL lose much shadow detail with contrasty scenes but with dull lighting it is sensational. - David Lyga

wblynch · Mar 17, 2011

Use it for Instamatic 126 !!

hpulley · Mar 17, 2011

wblynch said:
Use it for Instamatic 126 !!

As you well know, that's what I do! I'm reloading Kodak Gen 2 (Portra 160NC) and Rollei Retro 400S in my 126 cartridges (Solaris 200 and Kodak Verichrome Pan). So far, so good. The backing paper is the part that will wear out first, once I use mine all up I'll be trying some cut down 120 paper...

That said, I hadn't heard about the EOS 10s working with unperforated film. That is quite interesting...

elekm · Mar 17, 2011

After the sprocket wheel punches holes through the film, there is the matter of later trying to rewind the film back into the canister. As well, there might be bits of film floating around the camera, getting into the shutter, jamming it, etc.

In the end, this is one of those things that doesn't seem worth the effort. There are still so many good film available that it doesn't seem worth the effort.

Just like trying to squeeze and extra frame or two from each roll.

hpulley · Mar 17, 2011

With 126 there is no punching of holes. 126 film normally has a single sprocket hole per frame but if you snip or grind off the finger, which I did on my Kodak Instamatic 500, then it will shoot fine without any sprocket holes! I'm not sure this works on all bodies but on the 500 this works great (my childhood X-15F I'm not mutilating to try it out but my 500 is a beater missing the name plate and leatherette so I had no qualms about defacing it). This is great as trying to hand punch holes is a major PITA. It is then about 1.5 winds per shot (or two full winds and you get 16 shots on a 24 roll) and I find if I use 1/500 f/22 for the shot in between and hold the lens against my sleeve then there is almost no light leakage (if I had a lens cap I'd try that).

Does the EOS 10s/10QD punch holes or just not use the sprocket? If it punches holes then forget it, I'll just continue to reload my cartridges for my nice old Instamatic.

Worker 11811 · Mar 17, 2011

Kino said:
If you know someone with a Leo Catozzo 35mm polyester tape splicer for motion picture film, have impossible patience and can work in total darkness, you COULD perforate it yourself. The Catozzo is a guillotine type splicer that punches the sprocket holes out of an unperforated bandage of clear polyester tape laid across a join of a butt-splice. It certainly will NOT be pretty, but it should allow the film to transport well enough to test a roll.

A trip to the local multiplex cinema should produced said device, provided you can cajole them into parting with it for a brief period.

Of course, they will think you mad as a Hatter, but if you are like me, that's just par for the course...

I have tried punching through film with a 35mm tabletop splicer and it's not easy.

Tabletop splicers aren't made to handle this kind of job. They punch through tape easily but they won't go through film very well at all. Even the venerable Neumade 35-SS would BARELY be able to do a few punches and you would probably end up breaking the handle off if you didn't damage the punch matrix first.

You'd never get though a whole roll of 36 exposures before you either broke the splicer or gave up trying... Not to mention punching several rolls of film.

hpulley · Mar 17, 2011

Nano_Burger said:
I've also wanted to use unperforated film in a 35mm camera. I've modified a few by wrapping electrical tape around the toothed spindle until the it becomes a friction drive instead of a sprocket drive. Will work, but you have to put up with non-standard spacing which sucks for scanning. Anyway, the best way is to get a EOS 10s or EOS 10qt. It does not require sprocket holes for film positioning and will give you very nicly spaced exposures. Currently (2011), these bodies go for less than peanuts on eBay. I got 1 for $20 and one recently for $1. Shipping is on top of that, but still very good for a great advanced camera body. However, a deteriorating bumper in the camera causes the infamous tar on the shutter blades. Can be cleaned easily enough with napthea. Just thought I'd share this for the good of the community.

It sounds like you know what you're doing but are you sure the 10s works with unperforated film? While it is a sprocketless drive I read that it uses an IR LED to count sprocket holes for frame spacing. How does that work if there are no holes???

engineerchris · Mar 18, 2011

Just thought I would throw in my findings...

I have been on the hunt for a way to shoot unperf as well. I have picked up an assortment of old Canon EOS film bodies. It seems like all the best bodies I have also have the little IR "eye" that registers the sprocket holes for frame spacing. (at first glance the misc Elan II and IIe seem to work, but they also have the sensor). Even though they will transport the film, I haven't been successful in getting consistently usable negs. However, I finally did find one model of Rebel that seems to be the perfect fit. I will have to look to refresh my memory as to the exact model and report back. I am sure there has to be a whole series of these bodies that uses the same method of transport.

What to look for is this: The film path has no gearing for sprockets. The channel on the back of the camera does not have a little shiny black square in the path where the sprocket holes pass. The most important feature is that the camera has a driven nub that fits into the bottom of the 35mm cassette. Upon loading a roll of film, the entire roll is unwound onto the takeup spool on the right hand side of the camera. Then, as each exposure is taken the film rewinds into the cassette. After 24 or 36 exposures (whatever type of roll you loaded) the film is ready to be ejected. You don't have to wait for the reel to rewind. I can't tell exactly how the camera is registering the width of each frame, but I presume the drive mechanism is somehow turning at a prescribed rate for each film advance.

For anyone who does not know, the problem in an unregistered winding scheme, is that the width of both sides spool changes depending on how full the spool is wound with film. Basically the angle of rotation is not constant and could translate to either a series of frames with increasing dead space between frames or possibly the opposite, if the frames don't get advanced far enough you could have overlap. The only method I could conceive for this particular camera is to somehow automatically calibrate the advance rotations by virtue of completely transferring the whole unexposed roll at the beginning of the process. I also considered some method that tracks the relative rotation for both spools instantaneously and correlates that to a linear distance of film travel.

wblynch · Mar 18, 2011

with unlimited supplies of sprocketed 35mm film available I fail to see the interest in fitting that square peg into the round hole...

werra · Mar 18, 2011

wblynch said:
with unlimited supplies of sprocketed 35mm film available

Well, for example perfectly good NP APX100 is available here in the Europe for ca US$7 per 100ft roll.

wblynch · Mar 18, 2011

I would love to get one of those 100ft rolls -- for my Instamatic !!

Where do I sign?

werra · Mar 18, 2011

wblynch said:
I would love to get one of those 100ft rolls -- for my Instamatic !!

Where do I sign?

http://cgi.ebay.de/5x-AGFA-AGFAPAN-..._Foto_Camcorderzubehör_PM&hash=item3f083d05f3

And yes, sorry, my math was a bit off so early in the morning, it figures ca $10 per roll plus shipping. But it is cheap enough nevertheless.

engineerchris · Mar 18, 2011

In response to why someone would be interested in doing this...

There are a ton of super cheap odd 100 ft rolls available (especially Portra 160), but there are also some stocks that are only available in unperf 35mm. Unperf bulk rolls of 35mm microfilm being chief in my interest.

psykodaddy · Oct 2, 2021

Hey guys,

I know this one's dead...but I just got my hands on some nice microfilm...unperforated

@craigclu Do you still have this Konica that's ready for unperfed film, maybe?

Thanks and enjoy your weekend over there!

Greetings from Germany

craigclu · Oct 2, 2021

I was having a hard time recalling this.... I know I no longer have the camera but I can't recall anything about where it ended up.

reddesert · Oct 2, 2021

If I had a roll of unperforated 35mm, I would roll some into canisters and then get some of those 120-to-35mm adapters and use it in a camera with a 120 or 220 back (probably using a takeup canister so you can unload easily). Of course you need a camera that shoots 120/220, but it seems those are more common than 35mm cameras without a sprocket wheel.

Rowreidr · Oct 3, 2021

BamSam said:
Hey guys,

I know this one's dead...but I just got my hands on some nice microfilm...unperforated

@craigclu Do you still have this Konica that's ready for unperfed film, maybe?

Thanks and enjoy your weekend over there!

Greetings from Germany

Welcome to the community!

Canon ftb and EOS 10 do not use the sprockets to advance film. I've used both with Eastman 2468.

psykodaddy · Oct 3, 2021

Hey and thanks for the nice welcome from all of you guys!

@craigclu : Too bad to hear that, but I know how cameras can get lost in the years

@reddesert : I already have these cool adapters, but wanna shoot in some 35-SLRs, too...when it's hard to solve, I'm even more interested ;-)

@Rowreidr : Thanks for the hint with the FTb! I already thought about an EOS 10s or a Ricoh XRX...but from my point of view these things are so ugly, I wouldn't dare to go outside with em It's a matter of taste and they are good cameras, that's not the point!

But you're sure about the FTb? This one looks appealing to me and I'll try to get my hands on one of these.

I even have a film splicer to perforate the film myself in the darkroom, but sometimes I just wanna go out and shoot and if there's no roll with holes left...then the fun is gone.

psykodaddy · Oct 3, 2021

I found this within 10 seconds...it's called FTb QL and has a thing in the back I've never seen.

Does this one work with unperfed, too?

Can these two white sprocket wheels be "rubberized" for the unperfed, maybe?

BTW: I was looking into several german forums, too. But it seems my german fellows aren't interested in having fun without holes

AnselMortensen · Oct 3, 2021

Back in the early '90's, I was given a 100ft. roll of bulk 35mm unperf film for a project I was working on.
At that time, the Ricoh XR-M was a new-ish camera, and it had sprocket- less advance.
It had a sensor that counted sprocket holes, and wouldn't work with the unperf film.
Boo...I was never able to use that film.
I see a sprocketed shaft in that FTb QL photo.
Good luck, please keep us posted.

Rowreidr · Oct 3, 2021

Yes, I have shot several rolls with the ftb. The sprocketed shaft is only used for alignment. I just align the film along the silver guides and tape directly onto the uptake spool. When rewinding you do feel resistance that tells you when to stop.
My camera was empty, I had a roll, so took a pic for you:
https://imgur.com/a/7rr8Dq1

Unperforated film with 35mm SLR

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