Unofficial Ilford update (products)

[BlackandWhite40]

According to ILFORD, whilst there has been a temporary supply 'blip' with film and paper, the intention is to continue to manufacture everything for as long as possible. The recent supply issue has arisen due to them having to agree new terms with customers and suppliers - this has taken a while to get in place, but apparently this is now sorted and it's "business as usual".
With regard to items which may be discontinued - this will only happen once they can not physically make anymore (i.e. when supplies of materials have run out). So, for now it seems, the news is good!?

 

[chrisg]

market surveys?

Kodak, Ilford, etc. must have made some quantitative assessments of the market to inform their business decisions - at least I want to believe they would have. How much B&W film and paper is sold annually? Those figures must exist somewhere. Are they publicly available? What have the trends been and what are the beancounters predicting for the next five to ten? That might give us a better sense of what to expect from vendors over the next few years.

Chris

 

[TPPhotog]

According to ILFORD, whilst there has been a temporary supply 'blip' with film and paper, the intention is to continue to manufacture everything for as long as possible. The recent supply issue has arisen due to them having to agree new terms with customers and suppliers - this has taken a while to get in place, but apparently this is now sorted and it's "business as usual".
With regard to items which may be discontinued - this will only happen once they can not physically make anymore (i.e. when supplies of materials have run out). So, for now it seems, the news is good!?

I've read the same posts from Les so I'm not the one that needs convincing, but if the retailers don't order it then I can't buy it Hopefully he's in the minority otherwise it means that their market is a decreasing one they may not have planned for. The TMAX100 is looking quite good (when I get use to it) and I can get it at the same price as the Ilfords.

 

[BWGirl]

Hey Tony!
Let us know how theTmax does in rodinal! Also, do you know if you can pull it to 50? I saw your comments about Delta 100, and I have to tell you that after testing it shot @ 50, I much prefer it there than @ 100...it's a wee bit testy at 100! haha

Jeanette

 

[eclarke]

I was in Calumet/Chicago today and they have no Ilford sheet fil. They are the US shipping warehouse..Evan

 

[TPPhotog]

Hiya Jeanette,

I've posted a sample on the (there was a url link here which no longer exists) Sorry it's only a neg scan and I could (should) have shot it better but the negatives look really nice and lots more shadow detail than the scan shows

Agfa have times for TMAX100 rated

- at 50 Rodinal 1+25
- at 64 Rodinal 1+50 + 1+100
- at 80 Rodinal 1+100

So looks like it's good from 50 up to 100, but not seen if it can be pushed to 200 yet.

I do so much love playing LOL

Tony

 

[Tom Smith]

Hey Paulmat -

thanks for adding in your thoughts about the announcement. After shooting nothing this weekend, I've managed to console myself. After all - Ilford UK's chemistry based photography is up for sale: to make an announcement that certain sheet films are discontinued, and Pan F+/Delta 3200 are not going to be available is really silly: whoever (if anyone) buys Ilford UK, they'll be the arbiter of what film will be in production surely? Not the old hands-on team who have mostly been fired...?

I got a box of FP4+ (only 25 sheets though) this weekend. Promise I'll zone meter it rather than screw up a valuable sheet

Tom

 

[chrisg]

I was in Calumet/Chicago today and they have no Ilford sheet fil. They are the US shipping warehouse..Evan

Calumet's website says 25 sheet boxes of 4x5 HP5 are due in on Sept. 24. Maybe a lag due to the temporary shutdown at Ilford the other week?

Chris

 

[paulmat]

thanks for adding in your thoughts about the announcement.

Yoy're welcome Tim, you really sounded depressed

After shooting nothing this weekend, I've managed to console myself. After all - Ilford UK's chemistry based photography is up for sale

As far as I understand was Ilford for sale during the last couple of years but nobody wanted to invest in this money- and market share-loosing bloody stupid black & white stuff. Also in the earlier mentioned interview, that French Ilford guy talked about their two plants, in Switzerland (digital stuff) and England (the good stuff). He said Ilford was in the process of restructuring (read: downsizing) the English site, due to changed market conditions. So I am not sure if Ilford will be sold in the near term.

Not the old hands-on team who have mostly been fired...?

Is that so? Is Ilford a nearly empty company these days? Run by crisis managers only?

I got a box of FP4+ (only 25 sheets though) this weekend. Promise I'll zone meter it rather than screw up a valuable sheet

Here's a box of hp5+ in use. The last one? Time will tell, as the saying goes...

Cheers, Paul.

 

[bmac]

Brooks Jensen had what I think is an interesting view about ilford, agfa, etc in his audio blog on Sept 17. Dead Link Removed

I'd be interested to see what others think of this.

Brian

 

[BWGirl]

That was interesting.... you know...here's how I look at what he is saying...
To me this feels like saying it is ok to sacrifice things you believe in for something less. You know, it's like a slap in the face. This guy is saying "Look, it's ok to pray to the digital god...after all...it's a god and it is running ramshod over that one you believe in, so just go with the flow!" I don't know...to me this guy is saying that all of us here who do analog photography and all of the people around the world who don't even know about APUG, but are doing it the "analog way"...this guy is saying we should just give it all up and go willingly to the 'other side'...makes me feel like he thinks we are the Eloi! haha (Time Machine??? Remember?)
I'd like to have a little talk with him!
Jeanette

 

[Tom Stanworth]

It is a very good job we had Winston Churchill rather than him in '40!

I can see where he is coming from, but his view is rather more in keeping with general commercial work where the emphasis is on providing an image making service. If only digital were available clients would, well, expect digital. For those who are rather more artistic and for whom analogue the shose medium, he is way, way off the mark. This is like telling an oil painter not to worry, that he should be able to 'paint' using watercolours just the same. The finest oil painters are not in it to 'make paintings of stuff'. Thru their chosen medium they are best able to communicate. Others may take to watercolours. Change the language and you start again. Also, some things cannot be translated.....A watercolour will never be able to look like an oil or vica versa.

Yes for 99.999% of the photographic world, it matters not. For those for whom analgue is either essential in terms of the 'look' or as an almost spiritual part of image making, or part of the honesty of the image, it DOES matter. In any case, the stuff will still be made for some time to come. How much does a chest freezer cost in comparison to a new digi SLR in any case....or you could live at the North Pole.

Long Live Anlogue!!!!

Remember that those left standing will have it all to themselves. They will be there for a reason and reasons that matter. Those that just go with the flow will probably never master a thing. It seems incredulous, almost partonising to suggest that we should all feel better and not worry as we can still 'snap'. It is not about snapping, it is about a dedication to one's art and for Monet that included watercolours, NOT oils!

Tom

 

[clogz]

The nail on the head, Tom! Or in Alexander Pope's words: "What was often thought but never so well expressed" I am not very keen on time servers like this Jensen fellow. I bet he can't appreciate a good cigar and a decent whisky like Winston.

 

[TPPhotog]

The nail on the head, Tom! Or in Alexander Pope's words: "What was often thought but never so well expressed" I am not very keen on time servers like this Jensen fellow. I bet he can't appreciate a good cigar and a decent whisky like Winston.

Probably thinks that beaches are for lazing on and getting that well boiled lobster look as well

 

[Tom Smith]

Paulmat -

Well the weather was really miserable so I didn't get to shoot much FP4+ - so I've still got 25 sheets left (and counting

I've really got to stop reading this unofficial Ilford announcement stuff - it's making my vibes yo-yo up and down. I didn't know Ilford had been up for sale before. I guess if someone really wanted Ilford they could've made them an offer they couldn't refuse. If it has been up for sale for years and no one has bought them since then, that's even more gloomy than I thought. Ain't no one going to buy Ilford UK just because they put themselves on the market again.

Maybe the crisis managers could remarket Ilford UK: "digital just got better - here's the latest digital advance - better than 1001 megapixels - Ilford 5x4" sheet film - new and improved - better than the previous emulsion - this one will actually be in stock instead of back-order."

I wish.

Anyway -don't you have Bergger over there in France? I'm thinking of doing a few sheets in pyrocatechol to get a feel for it.


Onto Lenswork. I like the print quality of this magazine. Shame about Jensen's big mouth. He should've bogged the blog, but that's why people do blogs. Guess he sees it as a way to keep Lenswork viable. Maybe this time, we can be spared the tissue paper - there's enough toilet roll around..

 

[Eric Rose]

At first I got really pissed when Agfa dropped APX100 in 4x5. But I got over it. Then Ilford. I'm getting over it. But I have come to pretty much the same realization as Brooks. I'm just not going to sweat it. I create images and will work to that end with whatever is available. My preference obviously is analog, silver based materials.

However I'm not going to be so tied to one process or set of materials like say Tri-X that once it's gone too I throw up my hands and retire my cameras. What are people like M. A. Smith going to do when there is no AZO left? That's not meant as a critisism but when you are so closely tied to a process and the materials are no longer available, what do you do? You have to re-invent yourself to survive. However when you've spent so much time and effort trying to convince everyone that your process is superior to everything else, then your only avenue is to become a tier two producer of photographic art.

I'm tied to analog. That's what I am identified with, but if I need to use a different process such as digital to get what I want for a particular image I will use it. I will also not feel dirty. It's about creating art and mastering the materials and processes to create it. At least in my little piece of reality.

But don't get me wrong, I love analog and will always embrace it.

 

[Lee Shively]

Mr Jensen should understand that I and many others like me are not just random "makers of images"--we are "photographers". Photography is a process that is rooted in certain materials that are sensitive to light. The materials I need--that we all need as photographers--are a necessary part of the process for us to make our images by the method we use.

I'm pretty flexible. I can adapt to using different film or paper if Ilford products are no longer available. But I want there to be alternatives out there somewhere. Digiography is not an acceptable alternative. Neither is etching or water colors. These are not the media I employ as a "maker of images". His attitude is disturbing.

 

[TPPhotog]

At least in our lifetime there will always be the materials available to shoot the pictures we want and in the way we want to!

Admittedly we may have to import them from other countries and the costs may rise, but why is it that so many people do not understand that we are serious artists weather we do it for payment or as a hobby. My son has 3 years to go before he's off to uni or whatever he decides, if I have to I'll emigrate to another country in order to be able to use the materials I want and to lead the life I want to lead .... OK sorry that's my rant over for now

 

[Les McLean]

At first I got really pissed when Agfa dropped APX100 in 4x5. But I got over it. Then Ilford. I'm getting over it. But I have come to pretty much the same realization as Brooks. I'm just not going to sweat it. I create images and will work to that end with whatever is available. My preference obviously is analog, silver based materials.

However I'm not going to be so tied to one process or set of materials like say Tri-X that once it's gone too I throw up my hands and retire my cameras. What are people like M. A. Smith going to do when there is no AZO left? That's not meant as a critisism but when you are so closely tied to a process and the materials are no longer available, what do you do? You have to re-invent yourself to survive. However when you've spent so much time and effort trying to convince everyone that your process is superior to everything else, then your only avenue is to become a tier two producer of photographic art.

I'm tied to analog. That's what I am identified with, but if I need to use a different process such as digital to get what I want for a particular image I will use it. I will also not feel dirty. It's about creating art and mastering the materials and processes to create it. At least in my little piece of reality.

But don't get me wrong, I love analog and will always embrace it.

I'm reluctant to say I told you so but I've been writing the same message for many months. Making images is not about process, it's about seeing. Great if we analogue lovers have film and paper supplies in the coming years then we continue to use them but if they dry up there is no way that I'll stop making images, I'll work harder to master digital.

 

[clay]

Frederick Evans quit making images when he could no longer get commercial platinum paper to make his prints. I think that is extreme.

One nice thing about doing the alt-photo stuff that I love is that I am not really tied to a manufacturer for my prints. Admittedly, I still use a lot of film for negatives, but I'm committed to learning this wet plate process so that I will always have the quality I demand of my work exist independently of the whims of the manufacturers.

Plus I read somewhere that most photographers do all their great work in a twenty year span with mediocre output marking the bookends of their careers. Surely we can find a film that will last twenty years in the freezer. I guess the only question is how will you know the day you begin to be great as opposed to pedestrian? On your mark, get set....

 

[Sean]

Lately money has been tight so I've been buying up paper on local auction sites. So far I have acquired a heap of paper for cheap, ranging from various new agfa fiber to Jessops VC, Ilford, and there is that load of old paper a relative gave me. I used to feel that sticking to one combination of film/paper/dev is the only way to go, but now I am not so sure. As I've been stockpiling different papers I have a feeling that it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun working with them, somewhat spontaneous. I am no longer going to feel my prints must have a specific design, but will rather just print an image with whatever I have available until I'm happy with the result -and I think this is possible to achieve.

 

[Lee Shively]

The process is important to me. I cannot forsee pursuing photography if I am unable to use the process. I can say that because my income and well being does not depend on photography. I do it only because I love it.

But I can have a nonchalant attitude like Mr Jensen. What the hell! I stopped taking pictures for about 8 years once because of professional burn-out. How much longer can I expect to live anyway? :rolleyes:

 

[Tom Smith]

" I'm reluctant to say I told you so but I've been writing the same message for many months. "


Oh go ahead - you know you want to. It's good for you as well.

There's a myth that digitised converts carry about: one is that making images is not about process.

Making images i.e. creating is all about the process of creating. Geddit? Making = creating = process. This isn't difficult. Even I can understand that. Exhibiting prints is about the product - i.e. exhibition; end product. Not the process.

The thought that film will dry up in our lifetime? How catastrophic is that. Just think of when all those digital lithium batteries are outlawed in a few years when they're discovered to be linked with brain cancer which causes delusions of digital grandeur.

 

[jd callow]

I'm reluctant to say I told you so but I've been writing the same message for many months. Making images is not about process, it's about seeing. Great if we analogue lovers have film and paper supplies in the coming years then we continue to use them but if they dry up there is no way that I'll stop making images, I'll work harder to master digital.

Les,
My big concern is that the digital process is what I'll be left with. I have been a painter, a ceramist (loved them and would love to be able to eat and paint or work in clay, but...) and have been creating digitally for 20 years. I need to be creating, but I simply can't spend that kind of time staring at a monitor.

I have been making my own prints for about 5 years. It is far easier on my eyes, exercises my body and gives me a feeling of greater physical and mental envolvement.

If I had started in the darkroom first and 'discovered' the computer later I would have been far better for it.

 

[TPPhotog]

I'm reluctant to say I told you so but I've been writing the same message for many months. Making images is not about process, it's about seeing. Great if we analogue lovers have film and paper supplies in the coming years then we continue to use them but if they dry up there is no way that I'll stop making images, I'll work harder to master digital.

Sorry Les but on this one I have to disagree with you. It is not only arriving but the journey which are important. It may be due to the point I have an IT background or maybe not, but I find using digital much easier than traditional photography and with a conbination of PS and Neatimage I can manipulate many pictures with relative ease.

I enjoy the fact that different films behave in different ways, each having their ideal conditions with some cross-over. Trying to capture the light, produce a beautiful negative and then extract as much detail from it as I can is what I personally enjoy from my photography. The final image is the result of that pleasure.

As has already been said film will last the 20 or so years I have left, so for now I'm stocking up and will be taking more care of how much I actually shoot. If we do lose film I'll still be shooting it until my stocks run out and by then if I'm still alive I'll probably be too old to care as my brain is already burnt out.

Tony