Unknown Zeiss Ikon 9 x 12 GG Back

[sharpnikkor]

Hello,

I recently purchased a Zeiss Ikon 9 x 12 GG back that I thought would fit my Maximar B model 207/7.

Unfortunately the back did not fit the Maximar. For those that own one you know that the GG back, plate holders etc slide in and are held in place by the metal grooved sides.

This Zeiss Ikon back has a wood frame, fold-out hood and different edge configuration. I'll post some photos now.

Anyone have an idea of what Zeiss Ikon camera it might fit?

Thanks,

 

[Ian Grant]

The problem is that after the merger of Zeiss, Contessa Nettel, Goerz, Erneman, ICA etc in 1927 the factories continued making some of the same models but badged as Zeiss Ikon before Zeiss did some serious restructuring. They did actually publish some images in a catalogue of the different edge fittings, I have the images them somewhere but I'm in the middle of moving house so may take a while to find.

Meanwhile it looks it might fit my Erneman, I need to find the two files because I have some boxes of plate holders to identify, (over 150) along with some film pack holders and other oddments.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

This is a temporary file, translated from Swedish and reworked. It gives an idea of the edges of plate holders, I have a second one and possibly another plus a lot of plate holders -some marked by the manufacturers.



Hope it helps. Essentially you have a focus screen holder / back that also fits a pre Zeiss Ikon camera and the model continued under ZI, many were dropped within 2 to 3 years.

When I've finished the other image(s) I'll post them on the sticky thread.

Ian

 

[sharpnikkor]

Ian, thanks for posting the image of the plate holder edges. I didn't realize the variety of plate holders under Zeiss Ikon.

I'll have to post some better photos of the edges on the GG frame to see what matches.

 

[apkujeong]

Looks very much like a back for a 9x12 Ideal, it'd also fit a 9x12 Juwel. The G40 stamp seems common on backs for those cameras.

 

[sharpnikkor]

I want to thank apkujeong for identifying the Zeiss Ikon GG back to a 9 x 12 Ideal and a 9 x 12 Juwel.

Now to find either an Ideal or a Juwel camera body to match it.

 

[lobitar]

I want to thank apkujeong for identifying the Zeiss Ikon GG back to a 9 x 12 Ideal and a 9 x 12 Juwel.

Now to find either an Ideal or a Juwel camera body to match it.

Update 3/2019: The Ideal 9x12 and the Juwel 9x12 backs are not the same size and do not interchange!

 

[cjhale]

The back for my Ideal 250/7 is the G40, same as an older ICA/Zeiss Ideal 225 (overstruck, simply "ideal" on the handle), and an ICA Ideal 205. All of these interchange directly with the sealskin-trimmed G40 back on my Universal Juwel 275/7. Only the leather covering differs on these backs: some are blank,and some say Zeiss-Ikon but they are dimensionally identical and interchange. I bought a couple of the Ideals to capture their plate holders to use on the Universal Juwel. There are also two-sided holders for the Juwel but the regular single sided Ideal "pop off" holders work perfectly with it.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Ica and later Zeiss Ikon camera's came with two basic plateholder configurations: the ones that were made to 'slide in' in German called 'Kassetten zum einschieben' and the ones made to 'clamp on / pop off' in German called 'Kassetten zum anlegen'. Only the more luxury models had the 'Kassetten zum einlegen', since they could also be used in for instance very cold (freezing) weather and because when used it makes the camera less vibrate. Btw a G19 back is a 'slide in' back for 9 x 12 which sits on my Ica reflex camera; not sure if it would fit the Maximar.
Here's a page from the Ica catalogue with the different 'Kassetten':


ICA / Zeiss Ikon Favorit by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

 

[sharpnikkor]

That is great information. Thank you for posting that page.

 

[Alex Varas]

I think it’s from Ideal, at least my 10x15 Ideal has this GG

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I think it’s from Ideal, at least my 10x15 Ideal has this GG

Hi Alex, If I'm correct the 10x15 Ideal had a clamp on/pop off back, just like its 9x12 brother - the Ideal was considered more luxury than the Maximar which had a slide-in back and plates. The slide-in backs and plates were prone to difficult handling during winter (and in the tropics).

 

[Alex Varas]

Yes, the lever is on the upper right side and opens/closes both clamps on the sides, once is opened you can remove backwards the GG/holders.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Thanks for checking.
Here's another pictures with different plates from the ICA catalogue, also used for older type of German cameras. The ones shown on the bottom are the slide-in plates (einschieben Kassetten):

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Here's a picture of the Maxima 9x12 from the 1922 catalogue (and more below from 1925). According to this catalogue, the ground glass screen has no. G39.
And it uses the no 721/6 slide-in plateholders.

And a page from the 1925 catalogue:

 

[Alex Varas]

Thanks for checking.
Here's another pictures with different plates from the ICA catalogue, also used for older type of German cameras. The ones shown on the bottom are the slide-in plates (einschieben Kassetten):

My one has the GG as the upper left photo meanwhile a friend has a Juwel 13x18 with the ground glass as the upper right.

 

[Alex Varas]

The only usable holder I have is a double one but amazingly well preserved, No 737/12.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

The Juwel 13x18 was the top model camera of the era!

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

The only usable holder I have is a double one but amazingly well preserved, No 737/12.
View attachment 252687 View attachment 252688

Beautiful preserved indeed!
Some of these I do have in teak

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

in the middle the 10x15 and right the 13x18
btw the 9x12 seem to be more rare than the other two types....

 

[Alex Varas]

I wouldn’t mind to buy one of the 10x15 from you if you have the with film holder
I should ask my friend again the 13x18 for shooting some Ilford plates of that side but new house bathrooms are no dark at all

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I wouldn’t mind to buy one of the 10x15 from you if you have the with film holder

They are not so well preserved as yours, at least not all, but they do all have film inserts/sheats in them

[QUOTE="I should ask my friend again the 13x18 for shooting some Ilford plates of that side but new house bathrooms are no dark at all [/QUOTE]

He could use a dark changing bag like I do....I don't have a dark room anymore....
https://www.kamera-express.nl/produ...vmc3kmqPng5LwmGH-yTEBD7KRgqPI1LxoCPd4QAvD_BwE

 

[Alex Varas]

The problem is for me, I don’t have a daylight tank for developing 13x18 plates so I need to develop them in a dark room using processing trays any other idea?

 

[Donald Qualls]

I bet the Stearman Press 8x10 daylight tank/tray would do the job...

 

[Alex Varas]

It might do... I just read the specs and I don’t think it can do two plates of 13x18cm, 5x7 is slightly smaller and the thing is designed for keeping the film down so 1.5mm thickness would stretch dimensions a bit more.
I will write Tim asking about this, also I have 10x15cm film that I could do but as they tild me I would need a dark tent to manage, my dark bag could be not enough to handle the SP810