Uneven development

[Robert Canis]

Thanks in advance for your advice here. Photo attached taken on a Hasselblad where you can see the pale edges and lines running vertically. Agitation is twist and turn for the first 30 secs then 10 secs every minute. I use more developer than required so it is well convered.

 

[MattKing]

May we please see a backlit photo of the negatives, showing the rebates and the space between the frames.
That being said, it sounds like the sort of problem that often arises from using twist and turn agitation only, and not adding either inversion or continuous rotary agitation to the process.
What sort of tanks and reels are you using?

 

[Robert Canis]

Thank you so much for your input. It doesn't appear on all frames, perhaps half. Paterson.

 

[MattKing]

You do know that the instructions for Paterson reels and tanks recommend against using the twist agitator for anything more than the first 30 seconds of agitation?
I always like to mention that, because almost no one has ever actually read that .
It is hard to see on your example, but randomizing your agitation is never a bad idea when dealing with uneven results.

 

[Robert Canis]

I never use the twizzle stick. The lid is on and I twist and turn slowly in a figure of 8.

 

[gorbas]

2 different way of agitating Paterson tank. Unfortunately there is no date of publishing on the instructional booklets.
2nd one is very, very interesting! Never seen it even I'm using Paterson tanks since 1977.

 

[Sirius Glass]

2 different way of agitating Paterson tank. Unfortunately there is no date of publishing on the instructional booklets.
2nd one is very, very interesting! Never seen it even I'm using Paterson tanks since 1977.

I recommend that you use a mixture of both methods.

 

[pentaxuser]

I never use the twizzle stick. The lid is on and I twist and turn slowly in a figure of 8.

Quite a common and respected agitation movement as far as I can see from comments on Photrio and other videos so I doubt if your agitation has anything to do with your problem and in fact if your issue only appears on half the frames I feel we can definitely rule out agitation

How feel the rest of you?

I take it that the lighter sky on the right as we look at it, is not simply the fact that that section of the sky was in fact lighter as might be the case if the sun is setting in that area of the sky?

If this shot had been in the gallery I am not sure I'd have thought it strange that the right part of the sky was lighter. I'd have assumed what I said above

pentaxuser

 

[gone]

Ditch the twizzle stick, although that may not be the issue you're having on that neg. I had surge marks from the sprocket holes on my one and only twizzle stick attempt. Good 'ol inversions in a twisty manner, and the occasional tap on the table are the way to go.

It may be that the sky was lit in an uneven manner when you took the pic. I have to pay a lot more attention to things like this if there's a lot of sky in the shot w/ B&W film. Some nice fluffy clouds can be your friends when it comes to skies.

 

[pentaxuser]

Yes he did say in his #5, momus, that he never uses the twizzle stick so we can rule that out as a cause. His answer on the sky being lighter or not will be helpful

pentaxuser

 

[Robert Canis]

2 different way of agitating Paterson tank. Unfortunately there is no date of publishing on the instructional booklets.
2nd one is very, very interesting! Never seen it even I'm using Paterson tanks since 1977.

Interesting. Than you.

 

[Robert Canis]

Quite a common and respected agitation movement as far as I can see from comments on Photrio and other videos so I doubt if your agitation has anything to do with your problem and in fact if your issue only appears on half the frames I feel we can definitely rule out agitation

How feel the rest of you?

I take it that the lighter sky on the right as we look at it, is not simply the fact that that section of the sky was in fact lighter as might be the case if the sun is setting in that area of the sky?

If this shot had been in the gallery I am not sure I'd have thought it strange that the right part of the sky was lighter. I'd have assumed what I said above

pentaxuser

Pale strip also on the left. Appreciate your input. Thank you.

 

[Robert Canis]

You do know that the instructions for Paterson reels and tanks recommend against using the twist agitator for anything more than the first 30 seconds of agitation?
I always like to mention that, because almost no one has ever actually read that .
It is hard to see on your example, but randomizing your agitation is never a bad idea when dealing with uneven results.

Only use the twister for the first 30 seconds then inversions.

 

[Robert Canis]

Yes he did say in his #5, momus, that he never uses the twizzle stick so we can rule that out as a cause. His answer on the sky being lighter or not will be helpful

pentaxuser

It was almost dark. The sun had set a good 20 minutes previously. Pale strips both on the left and right of the neg.

 

[MattKing]

Did you, per chance, have a polarizing filter on the camera?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Thanks in advance for your advice here. Photo attached taken on a Hasselblad where you can see the pale edges and lines running vertically. Agitation is twist and turn for the first 30 secs then 10 secs every minute. I use more developer than required so it is well convered.

The vertical lines .2 bromide drag and I think it would be better off with continuous agitation.Try to lay your tank onto a flat surface such as such as the edge of a table and roll the tank back and forth for the entire development time. This will give you a very even development.

 

[pentaxuser]

We seem to have become fixated on agitation as being the cause and a change to that as being the solution but I have never seen Canis' problems on my negs in 18 years of development and my regime is close enough to his to have brought about something similar in those 18 years

So is it time we examined other causes? What those might be remains a "head scratcher " for me I admit This one gives me the same depressing feeling in terms of finding a cause as did vania's and logan2z

So a few more questions:Canis, have you experienced this problem with this Hasselblad before?

If not what if anything was different on this occasion in terms of film, developer etc?

pentaxuser

 

[Brendan Quirk]

You do know that the instructions for Paterson reels and tanks recommend against using the twist agitator for anything more than the first 30 seconds of agitation?
I always like to mention that, because almost no one has ever actually read that .

I read that. Then got lazy, and starting using the stick for all agitation anyway. Big mistake. It absolutely resulted in horizontal lines (parallel to the film length) of density. Do not use the stick exclusively. I must add, that I was also being spare with my agitation, to reduce contrast, so maybe more strenuous agitation would have been OK, but I will not risk it.

I am not saying the problem in this thread is due to agitation, but rather responding to MattKing's statement that no one read the recommendation - I did, and screwed it up anyway!

 

[Robert Canis]

The vertical lines .2 bromide drag and I think it would be better off with continuous agitation.Try to lay your tank onto a flat surface such as such as the edge of a table and roll the tank back and forth for the entire development time. This will give you a very even development.

Thank you, will try this.

 

[Robert Canis]

Did you, per chance, have a polarizing filter on the camera?

No. No filters.

 

[Robert Canis]

We seem to have become fixated on agitation as being the cause and a change to that as being the solution but I have never seen Canis' problems on my negs in 18 years of development and my regime is close enough to his to have brought about something similar in those 18 years

So is it time we examined other causes? What those might be remains a "head scratcher " for me I admit This one gives me the same depressing feeling in terms of finding a cause as did vania's and logan2z

So a few more questions:Canis, have you experienced this problem with this Hasselblad before?

If not what if anything was different on this occasion in terms of film, developer etc?

pentaxuser

Thank you for taking the time to contribute.
Yes, I have experienced the same problem before.
I have just developed a roll (now drying so will be a few hours) pre-wetting and trying a new agitation technique. Will let you know.

 

[Wallendo]

The last time I had problems like this, it was a shutter issue with a Leica IIIc. The problem only manifested itself at high shutter speeds.

I have also seen an appearance like this with dense negatives on an older scanner.

The streaks appear too linear and regular for an agitation issue.

 

[Lachlan Young]

@Robert Canis How rapidly did you dry your negs - and did you squeegee off the water?

 

[Robert Canis]

@Robert Canis How rapidly did you dry your negs - and did you squeegee off the water?

In a steamed bathroom, no radiator and left to dry for around 6 hours. No, I didn't squeegee. prefer not to touch the negs. Thanks for your input.

 

[Robert Canis]

The last time I had problems like this, it was a shutter issue with a Leica IIIc. The problem only manifested itself at high shutter speeds.

I have also seen an appearance like this with dense negatives on an older scanner.

The streaks appear too linear and regular for an agitation issue.

Have refined the agitation (no twizzle stick at any stage) and on the roll I developed yesterday, no streaks. Might be a lucky break so will do exactly the same again, soon.