Understanding and mapping the concept of "Cross Processing"

[fabulousrice]

In the beginning of my film journey, I was convinced that "cross-processing" could only refer to processing either slide film in negative baths, or the other way around.

Since then, I met a few photographers who told me that any film that is processed in a bath it is not meant for can qualify as "cross-processing".

There are five major types of film processing solutions available today, which makes 20 different possible combinations (whether or not these results could be any good is another topic).

I am also assuming that for each one of these combinations, pushing and pulling might be possible during development if one wants to experiment (but please tell me if I'm wrong).

Am I correct in assuming that all 20 combinations of the below table are correct applications of "cross-processing"?

If anyone has examples of the most rare combinations, I would love to see them.

A: CineStill C41 kit or other - $30
B: CineStill CS6 or other - $40
C: CineStill CN2 - $13
D: Rodinal or other - $9
E: Adox Scala Reversal kit - $46

1: C41 in E6 bath
2: C41 in ECN2 bath
3: C41 in BW bath
4: C41 in BW positive bath
5: E6 in C41 bath
6: E6 in ECN2 bath
7: E6 in BW bath
8: E6 in BW positive bath
9: ECN2 in C41 bath
10: ECN2 in E6 bath
11: ECN2 in BW bath
12: ECN2 in BW positive bath
13: BW in C41 bath
14: BW in E6 bath
15: BW in ECN2 bath
16: BW in BW positive bath
17:BW positive in C41 bath
18: BW positive in E6 bath
19: BW positive in ECN2 bath
20: BW positive in BW bath

 

[MattKing]

Good luck achieving internet consensus on the meaning and use of any term, including "cross processing".
The only reliable method of dealing with things like this is to pick a definition you want to use, and include that definition every time you use the term.
e.g.: "By cross processing I mean .....".
Awkward, laborious and a PITA, but clear and certain.
And to just assume that if you are reading someone else's use of the term, that there is a substantial chance that they will be intending it to mean something different from how you would use it.

 

[fabulousrice]

Good luck achieving internet consensus on the meaning and use of any term, including "cross processing".
The only reliable method of dealing with things like this is to pick a definition you want to use, and include that definition every time you use the term.
e.g.: "By cross processing I mean .....".
Awkward, laborious and a PITA, but clear and certain.
And to just assume that if you are reading someone else's use of the term, that there is a substantial chance that they will be intending it to mean something different from how you would use it.

Of course.
I'm not as much trying to get a consensus on the definition of the term as I am trying to gather examples that could be worth trying.
For cases ABCD and E, the results - even pushed or pulled - have been widely documented.
For cases 1 through 20, however, I do not recall having seen examples of each scenario and wonder if they even exist!

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I suggest changing 'bath' to 'process'. There is no E6 bath - the process consists of multiple chemical baths.

#13-15 and #17-#19 don't make any sense. If you process a B&W film in C41 process, you get blank film. #20 also makes no sense for films like Foma R100 due to the silver mask.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

For cases 1 through 20, however, I do not recall having seen examples of each scenario and wonder if they even exist!

#3 and #11 work fine. You can find plenty of examples on the web. #16 also works fine - there are many threads in this forum itself if you search for 'reversal processing'. On the web, search for Dr5 process and you can find many examples.

#1: here are examples of XP2 Super cross-process in E6.

 

[brbo]

I suggest changing 'bath' to 'process'. There is no E6 bath - the process consists of multiple chemical baths.

This!

Getting familiar with each step of the various process(es) and types of films will be a better spent time and energy than "mapping" every possible combination (even before people start suggesting that there are a number of processes and types of film missing).

As for the display of the results of every combination, there are plenty. It's just that they are probably not collected in one place. There is also a problem with this as most of the materials/processes were originally designed with moderen presentation (scanning/digitization/post processing) in mind.

 

[John Salim]

'Bath' is a motion picture term. It's the same thing !

JS

 

[loccdor]

The way I've seen "cross-processing" used is 99% referring to E-6 in C-41. In particular I've never seen color developed as B&W referred to as cross-processing. That doesn't mean it's wrong to do so, just that it's not commonly used that way. People would instead refer to it as "developed as B&W".

 

[Carnie Bob]

My particular favs are E6 film in C41 - C41 flash of light half way through development.

John Callow was the king of E6 in C41 IMO.
C41 in E6 pushed 4 stops is also very seductive

 

[brbo]

E-6 in C-41 will vary a lot depending on film. Kodak slide films will be contrasty, but generally very nice and easy to invert:



I personally don't care for Fuji slide films cross processed in C-41, you have to fight it a lot more. Or embrace the oddities, which is probably the point of cross processing...