UK Camera Repair Recommendation needed for Canon F1

[benjiboy]

Hi Colin,

I trust what Benjiboy says. If he says the MR9 works fine then we'll asume it works fine.

Thus, follow my advice on the post "What i would do is, pick a subject, for example a landscape, check what the ideal exposure...", so you can find out where you should point the F1 meter to get good exposures.

The best way to compare in camera light meter readings is with a 18% Grey Card and ensure it fills the cameras viewfinder, and before you come to any conclusions about the meters accuracy and spend a load of money on a C.L.A. take some pictures with it and see some results, there's a big difference between theory and practice.

 

[benjiboy]

Is the meter miscalibrated?! Those meters almost never go off-calibration, by virtue of their design (the F1n meter uses no variable resistors, almost no component that could drift except for the CdS cell itself -- but then, this is a special CdS cell custom made for Canon).

I don't know if you've done this already, but you should make sure the "side window" of the focusing screen is very clean. This is the window that mirrors the metering area to the CdS cell, and if it gets dirty the CdS cell will get less light.

Also make sure the mechanism that corrects for full aperture is working freely. Push the maximum aperture sensing pin (at the lens mount) repeated times to try to 'free' the mechanism. Do the same with the lever that follows the lens' aperture ring (at the lens mount), move it up and down (gently, of course).

If all mechanisms are OK the technician can adjust the meter, but if the CdS cell is faulty, this won't correct the problem, at least not for the whole metering range (approx. EV1-EV15). And i'm not sure it would be easy to replace the CdS cell, because those were custom cells with a special shape. Unlike the other cameras like Nikon F/F2/Nikkormats, which use more 'generic' round CdS cells. The Canon F-1 service manual, also, indicates that the CdS cells are provided (by Canon) with matching galvanometers and that thus both items must be replaced at the same time.

Aren't you wanting to have it recalibrated for 1.55V silver-oxide cells? I strongly suggest you not to do this; use #675 hearing aid zinc-air cells instead and enjoy perfect metering.

I have been shooting with F1's for almost thirty years and agree with Flavio's remarks entirely and would add that it is very rare to find an F1 with an inaccurate light meter one reason being that unlike most S.LR's the light metering cell isn't in the mirror box where it's in the light path but in the left side of camera body where the original design team after experimenting found produced the most accurate readings.

 

[pdeeh]

Nothing on the TV are we bored ?.

Being sneeringly unpleasant towards a well-respected and longstanding member who is offering a constructive suggestion as to how you might get more help is neither endearing, nor does it incline one to offer help in the future.
You will note how the thread "took off" once the title was amended.

 

[railwayman3]

Anyone any experience of H Lehmann Ltd, of Stoke-on-Trent ? They are Canon and Nikon approved repairers, although my main need is for some Pentax gear to be checked over, plus perhaps some older lenses repaired......as I go to Stoke fairly regularly on business, it might save me the cost and hassle of entrusting my gear to post or courier.

 

[colin wells]

Well maybe if you didnt sound so condescending and patronising you would of got a better reception pdeeh .

 

[flavio81]

Well maybe if you didnt sound so condescending and patronising you would of got a better reception pdeeh .

Colin,

Matt was very polite indicating you to better amend the thread title, your answer was "nothing on tv, are you bored?".
I will have to side with pdeeh on this. Your reply was a bit rude to him. I think you should accept this. Pdeeh's response was polite enough and was made with the intention of defending Matt.

And I agree with Matt and Pdeeh -- once you put a proper thread title, everybody went to help you. You know i took the time to help you here.

 

[pdeeh]

Well maybe if you didnt sound so condescending and patronising you would of got a better reception pdeeh

Maybe if you bothered to read the posts properly you would notice that I was not the author of the post you so badly misread, and your rude riposte would have had greater force.

One for the ignore list I think.

 

[Mackinaw]

...... and would add that it is very rare to find an F1 with an inaccurate light meter one reason being that unlike most S.LR's the light metering cell isn't in the mirror box where it's in the light path but in the left side of camera body where the original design team after experimenting found produced the most accurate readings.

Benji, I guess I don’t understand what you are saying. While I’m not a camera repair tech, I have taken apart a few old F-1’s (original). The CDS metering cell is located in the camera body directly at the rear of the focusing screen. The meter’s galvanometer is located on the camera's left side, but that is because the linkage connecting the lens to the meter is located on that side. Canon just as easily could have located it on the camera’s right side, if they wished. I suspect it’s on the left side is because of size constraints.

Canon pretty much just took the meter from the earlier FT, updated it, and stuck it in the F-1. It works very well. I had my very old F-1 checked out by Ken Oikawa years back and the meter, now, is still 100% accurate.

 

[flavio81]

Benji, I guess I don’t understand what you are saying. While I’m not a camera repair tech, I have taken apart a few old F-1’s (original). The CDS metering cell is located in the camera body directly at the rear of the focusing screen. The meter’s galvanometer is located on the camera's left side, but that is because the linkage connecting the lens to the meter is located on that side. Canon just as easily could have located it on the camera’s right side, if they wished. I suspect it’s on the left side is because of size constraints.

Canon pretty much just took the meter from the earlier FT, updated it, and stuck it in the F-1. It works very well. I had my very old F-1 checked out by Ken Oikawa years back and the meter, now, is still 100% accurate.

Yes, you are correct.

This arrangement requires the galvanometer base to rotate with the rotation of the shutter speed dial.
The same arrangement is used on the FT, FTn, EF (little known fact!), and F-1.
This is mechanically more complex (and expensive) than using a variable resistor and a 'bridge' circuit -- which is what the Nikon F, Nikon F2, Pentax Spotmatic, Nikkormat F/FT/FTN use. On some of those cameras the variable resistor can get dirty or worn down, or the brushes corroded, and then the meter will require service. A common fault on Nikkormats and on most Photomic meters. Nikon later refined the way of making the variable resistor to make it remarkably durable. On those cameras the galvanometer is on a fixed position.

So on the F-1 the metering arrangement is more complex, but the benefit is that the meter gets really reliable.

The downside is that the (simpler) electric circuit is even more sensitive to the battery voltage.

 

[Mackinaw]

I’m finding the biggest problem with old FD cameras (original F-1, FTb and others) is that the linkage that connects the lens aperture to the meter is getting sticky. The aperture-connector lever that moves up and down on the right side of the mirror box (connects to the aperture lever on the lens) can bind on these old cameras. I’ve had to totally replace the linkage or, if I’m lucky, add a few drops of oil to friction/pivot points. None of this is unexpected, these cameras are now 45+ years old, but age can take their toll. Luckily, parts are readily available (cheap part cameras) and they can be fixed.

 

[benjiboy]

Hi Colin,

I trust what Benjiboy says. If he says the MR9 works fine then we'll asume it works fine.

Thus, follow my advice on the post "What i would do is, pick a subject, for example a landscape, check what the ideal exposure...", so you can find out where you should point the F1 meter to get good exposures.

The correct voltage the Old F1 and F1n was designed for was 1.35 Volts that the original PX 625 Mercury cell gave out not 1.45 Volts as Colin stated, the PX 675 Silver Oxide battery gives out 1.45 Volts which is reduced to 1.35 by the schottky diode in the MR9 adaptor.
I doubt very much that your F1's meter is inaccurate. Have you actually shot any pictures with it ?

 

[benjiboy]

Anyone any experience of H Lehmann Ltd, of Stoke-on-Trent ? They are Canon and Nikon approved repairers, although my main need is for some Pentax gear to be checked over, plus perhaps some older lenses repaired......as I go to Stoke fairly regularly on business, it might save me the cost and hassle of entrusting my gear to post or courier.

I used to use the company to handle all the camera repairs of the group of ten camera shops I worked for, and indeed met Hans Leahmann several times, I found. the company over the seven years I delt with them to be very professional , and reliable I found their turn round time to be pretty fast in most cases many of the repairs were only two weeks until they were returned . It's about twenty years since I did business with them but I don't have any reason to think that they will have changed.

 

[HiHoSilver]

Bravo on good help, Ben.

'Coveted an F1 when they were new.

 

[benjiboy]

Bravo on good help, Ben.

'Coveted an F1 when they were new.

So did I HiHo and I worked at a professional dealer selling them in those days they were very expensive around £ 900 ($1115 USD) which in 1976 was a lot of dough and I had a young family in those days and couldn't afford one and I never dreamt that I would ever own the four I have.
P.S. The reason I'm sceptical about Colin's F1n light meter being faulty is that I personally have never come across a F1 with an inaccurate meter, indeed the meters in mine (3 New F1's and a F1n) all the cameras were manufactured in different years to each other and checked against a Kodak Grey Card with a digital spot agree with each other within 3/10th of a stop they are all more than 25 years old and as far as I know have never been serviced

 

[colin wells]

Hi benjiboy i picked up the first set from the chemist and nearly all the pics have a bar going down the right hand side .So i have other problems besides the meter

 

[benjiboy]

That'a a different matter Colin, unless you took all the pictures with flash with the shutter speed on the wrong sync. speed it sounds like you have a shutter fault.

 

[colin wells]

Hi Ben No flash was fitted .I have fixed a few FTBs with this problem Capping /Bounce but they are two very different cameras despite sharing some parts .The F1 feels very dry and unused to me, very little brassing and no dents but very clean i think its had a few years in the bottom of a wardrobe

 

[flavio81]

Hi Ben No flash was fitted .I have fixed a few FTBs with this problem Capping /Bounce but they are two very different cameras despite sharing some parts .The F1 feels very dry and unused to me, very little brassing and no dents but very clean i think its had a few years in the bottom of a wardrobe

Yes, this is capping/bounce. Time for a repairman to give some love to the shutter!

 

[benjiboy]

Yes, this is capping/bounce. Time for a repairman to give some love to the shutter!

I agree with Flavio Colin the F1 is a truly great 35mm SLR and worth spending money on having it professionally serviced and it will give you many years of pleasure, whereas I wouldn't advocate spending money on a A or a T series Canon camera the Canon F series cameras were some of the best 35mm cameras ever made, and we will never see their like again.

 

[colin wells]

Well a conclusion to the post .After studying the F1 workshop manual for days and going over every part of it and scouring the internet for every scrap of information i could find i have repaired the camera to full working order .The shutter tension adjusters are in appprox the same position as the FTBs very different in design but doing the same job .I adjusted the tension until i had a nice even fire throughout the range (i had already made my mind up if it took more than 11/2 turns on ether adjuster something else was wrong )and went on to service the rest of the camera .I put a roll of film through it and had it developed i shot the pics at all speeds and f stops and i am very happy with the results .The camera feels 100%better for being lubricated .Thanks for all the help everyone and especially a certain camera technician in OZ . Colin