Two Different Chromes.....

[CMoore]

What do you mean when you say "trivia"
I guess this description is totally inappropriate.
I am talking about that period we consider (the golden age of the prosperity of visual culture in the Middle East region)
- This is an important period, ORWO contributed to the formation of the conscience and culture of several generations of Middle Eastern people.

Then just drop the word "trivia" if you think it is inappropriate and replace it with the word information.

 

[MattKing]

What do you mean when you say "trivia"

"Trivia" as in many details, large and small, about a historical market in what was - for many of us - an exotic and mysterious place.
The sort of thing that gives context and a sense of a different world than the one we are accustomed to.
None of which is either practical for us or directly relevant to our every day life.
But it is still extremely interesting.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Then just drop the word "trivia" if you think it is inappropriate and replace it with the word information.

Please excuse me, English is not my first language, so I cannot understand (between the lines),
God bless you my dear brother ,,
This is an example of the movie (ORWO) produced in 1966 in Egypt. It was developed and printed by the Egyptian studios laboratories of the Egyptian government at that time, with great regret, these laboratories are offered for sale after they were rented out for 10 years.
- Yes, maybe the quality of acidification was not great, but I visited these factories two months ago in order to obtain (some of the chemicals offered for sale) - I was told that the laboratories were resident by a technical chemist seconded from (ORWO) and was living in Egypt Almost permanently in order to supervise the mixing of chemicals used to process films, this chemical technician has always been opposed to the government's lack of interest in providing modern devices that contribute to accurate chemistry preparation.
- On the whole, the Egyptian government was meanwhile concerned with matters of war, etc., and the issue of spending on modernizing and developing cinema production plants was not among its priorities. These laboratories were (black and white) and turned into color factories thanks to the efforts of their workers only.

 

[AgX]

- And those Soviet, Chinese and Czech films were shown in cinemas on the sidelines of western films (before or after the American film) .. and it was almost for free.

The difference was that you could watch both, eastern and western, movies, we only the western ones.
(Czech children movies aside.)

 

[mohmad khatab]

"Trivia" as in many details, large and small, about a historical market in what was - for many of us - an exotic and mysterious place.
The sort of thing that gives context and a sense of a different world than the one we are accustomed to.
None of which is either practical for us or directly relevant to our every day life.
But it is still extremely interesting.

May God bless you - Thank you for this wonderful illustration.
- Greetings

 

[mohmad khatab]

The difference was that you could watch both, eastern and western, movies, we only the western ones.
(Czech children movies aside.)

You're absolutely right .
I totally agree with you.
You and your generation were deliberately deprived of learning about the cultures of honorary peoples for fear of (the scarecrow of communism) that was in fact like (straw man) - it does not hurt, but perhaps it might work.
Even the Czech children's films were not allowed to receive prizes for female cinematographers, they may be allowed to participate, but most of the time they are not allowed to win prizes by political and sovereign decisions. As well as Finnish and Polish children's films, all these things raised the Egyptian filmmakers, so they established an Egyptian International Festival for Children's Cinema.
- We were elementary students, and the school took us on a trip to the cinema in the first week of January to watch the festival films for free in government-owned cinemas.
We used to watch movies from Russia, China, the Czech Republic, Finland, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria and East Germany. The film is short, not exceeding 30 minutes, and it is mostly translated.
Children who were not so lucky to see the festival's films were watching the award-winning films on the government television later.
- I do not know why this festival stopped now.

 

[CMoore]

Please excuse me, English is not my first language, so I cannot understand (between the lines),
God bless you my dear brother ,,
This is an example of the movie (ORWO) produced in 1966 in Egypt. It was developed and printed by the Egyptian studios laboratories of the Egyptian government at that time, with great regret, these laboratories are offered for sale after they were rented out for 10 years.
- Yes, maybe the quality of acidification was not great, but I visited these factories two months ago in order to obtain (some of the chemicals offered for sale) - I was told that the laboratories were resident by a technical chemist seconded from (ORWO) and was living in Egypt Almost permanently in order to supervise the mixing of chemicals used to process films, this chemical technician has always been opposed to the government's lack of interest in providing modern devices that contribute to accurate chemistry preparation.
- On the whole, the Egyptian government was meanwhile concerned with matters of war, etc., and the issue of spending on modernizing and developing cinema production plants was not among its priorities. These laboratories were (black and white) and turned into color factories thanks to the efforts of their workers only.

No Problem.
I was very interested in everything you have to say. I know nothing about your part of the world.
I think we are privileged ( lucky, fortunate ) to have you here as a member.!

 

[mohmad khatab]

No Problem.
I was very interested in everything you have to say. I know nothing about your part of the world.
I think we are privileged ( lucky, fortunate ) to have you here as a member.!

God bless you my dear brother .
It is a great honor for me to be with you in this great forum and I am pleased to have spoken to you in this interesting dialogue.
O dear (dialogue full of Passionate), and longing for the beautiful past, the great time.
Thank you very much for having raised this wonderful topic.
Greetings to all

 

[fs999]

Agfachrome CT-18 (same as ORWO 18) and later 50 S used E-3 process (I developed one film, my opinion was : never again !)
Agfachrome RS and later RSX and RSX II use E-6 process (Kodak compatible).

 

[AgX]

Agfachrome CT-18 (same as ORWO 18) and later 50 S used E-3 process (I developed one film, my opinion was : never again !).

-) Agfachrome CT-18 was not the same as Orwochrome UT-18. (There was no "Orwo 18" either.)

-) Agfa never employed E-3

-) Neither Agfachrome CT-18 nor Agfachrome 50 S took any form of Kodak process

-) If you develop a film in the wrong process, for bad outcome it is you to blame, not the film.

 

[fs999]

-) Agfachrome CT-18 was not the same as Orwochrome UT-18. (There was no "Orwo 18" either.)

Wikipedia : In der DDR wurde während der Teilung Deutschlands ein sehr ähnlicher Film von ORWO – einem ehemaligen Agfa-Werk – als Orwochrom UT 18 (Umkehrfilm Tageslicht 18° DIN) bis zu den 1990er Jahren hergestellt. ORWO hielt in der Verarbeitungsvorschrift 9165 einen kompatiblen Entwicklungsprozess fest.

-) Agfa never employed E-3

Sorry I meant AP-41...

-) If you develop a film in the wrong process, for bad outcome it is you to blame, not the film.

I didn't use the wrong process, but the process was too complicated and long (6 bathes + second exposure + temp accuracy) for an amateur, that's why I never did it again. Now I use the E-6 process which far more simple.

 

[AgX]

That Wikipedia statement in conclusion would mean that all E-6 films are similar too.

 

[AgX]

In the Middle East, Near East, and Arab world - Agfa was number one, not two, at the level of the average citizen)

Not only in Egypt. Our american fellows vastly overestimate the Kodak market share for some countries.
In West-Germany for instance the Kodak share was a small fraction of that of Agfa.
At world-average again the situatio was vice-versa.

 

[foc]

I had a look in one of my British Journal of Photography books and found a list of colour film principles and processes.

It covers reversal film, reversal paper, instant and negative films that were available in 1981.

Check out the processing and colour principles for each make of film.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I miss Agfachromes in general, especially the high-speed Agfachrome 1000. It had a very clean soft color palette and appealing conspicuous grain. I can't think of anything like it made today. Pixelated apps just aren't the same thing, and remind me of imitation ice milk.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Not only in Egypt. Our american fellows vastly overestimate the Kodak market share for some countries.
In West-Germany for instance the Kodak share was a small fraction of that of Agfa.
At world-average again the situatio was vice-versa.

Yes, I totally agree with you.
Even at the government level - (ORWO) was everywhere,
- Microfilm to register and document Ministry of Justice cases (ORWO)
- Official films used for the presidency of the Republic (ORWO), whether they are motion pictures or photographic films.
- In medical schools - all types of medical radiology (ORWO)
Films approved by the Ministry of Antiquities for Documenting Archaeological Discoveries (ORWO).
The Higher Institute of Cinema awards its students an ORWO movie to produce their graduation project.
- The movie studios and factories owned by the Egyptian government were using and producing cinematic films with (OWO) film.
Everything in Egypt is either (ORWO) or (AGFA)

 

[koraks]

Yes, I totally agree with you.
Even at the government level - (ORWO) was everywhere,

Makes sense in the light of East Germany's enduring efforts to expand its global influence, in which it specifically targeted Arab countries with some success after the 6-day war. Undoubtedly industrial relations between the GDR and Egypt piggybacked on the military and strategic relationship between the countries. I wouldn't be surprised if Egypt paid very attractive prices for ORWO products back then.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Makes sense in the light of East Germany's enduring efforts to expand its global influence, in which it specifically targeted Arab countries with some success after the 6-day war. Undoubtedly industrial relations between the GDR and Egypt piggybacked on the military and strategic relationship between the countries. I wouldn't be surprised if Egypt paid very attractive prices for ORWO products back then.

It has nothing to do with the Six-Day War or the Hundred Days.
In one of my posts, I displayed a link to an Egyptian film produced in 1966 - before the Six-Day War and before the Great October War,
East Germany has been kind to others Likewise in Pakistan and India swords will find the same thing.
. She really had excellent technologies and had a research center that never sleeps, always works and always works,

 

[koraks]

Well, my point is that the market and the market shares of different companies a few decades ago did not exist in a vacuum, just like today, and that the geopolitical context always has an influence.

 

[AgX]

Makes sense in the light of East Germany's enduring efforts to expand its global influence, in which it specifically targeted Arab countries with some success after the 6-day war.

Yes, there was that aspect. And in the Arab world there even was political likeness. But of utmost importance was the currency factor. By offering good deals on their industrial products the GDR could source raw stock without spending scarce foreign currency. See it as big barter deals. Such sort of trading goes back in Germany to the mid-30s.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Yes, there was that aspect. And in the Arab world there even was political likeness. But of utmost importance was the currency factor. By offering good deals on their industrial products the GDR could source raw stock without spending scarce foreign currency. See it as big barter deals. Such sort of trading goes back in Germany to the mid-30s.

The quality associated with the fair price was the first criterion in that era, and not just the price, as you think.
Fuji films were not popular in Egypt at the time, as it consumes a lot of time until it reaches from Japan to Cairo, and it comes in months across the sea and is stored for many months and its effectiveness is less.
- Konica films were manufactured in that era by Ferrania factories, and they were mainly dependent on Ferrania recipes inspired by the recipes of Agfa, Konica films were more popular than Fuji in those days, and English Tudor films were also popular. All European films were arriving quickly and quickly to the port of Alexandria, and this was a very important criterion in the spread of (ORWO) films in Egypt.
The car engine's combustion candles apply to the same thing - American and Japanese brands needed a long time at sea to reach Cairo packed with sea moisture and do not work satisfactorily and their price is high, while the combustion candles made in the former Yugoslavia (Bosnia and Herzegovina) today were It arrives within a week from the moment it leaves the factory and it is of very acceptable and very effective quality and its price is very acceptable.

 

[svetoklik]

That "pastel" Agfachrome was a later E6 product line and NOT the older Agfa 50 in question, which was very high contrast, just like I already described. The look of the prints is highly "pointillistic" if significantly enlarged, almost like old high speed Scotchchrome, and indeed Autochrome in terms of spottish detail rendition (not hue repro), almost as if the dyes were side by side interspersed rather than overlapping. That's probably what allowed this film to pick up certain exotic hues that later chrome films couldn't. I've printed enough of it that I don't think I need to be lectured what it does or doesn't look like. You are probably confusing this with later Agfachromes which were quite similar to other E6 films of the era except for a softer less-saturated palette. The first Agfachrome 50 marketed here in the US had way more contrast than Kodachrome, and with grain that looked like buckshot compared to the Ektachrome 64 introduced around the same time.

Hello to everyone. My first post here. I am reading this forum some time and I am again interested for 6x6 format, this time for the color.
My question is how to develop Agfachrome 50s that is expired in 1985 year?
I have see some posts from member mohmad khatab probably on another forum so I am asking him kindly to repeat it here and other members in order to have it on the one place.

Also have a 305 meters roll of Kodak 2468 direct duplicating microfilm that is expired in 2012 year which I could not use for movie shooting but I would like to know more about others experience in developing it.
Thank you all of you a lot.

​

 

[foc]

The film Agfachrome 50s used the now obsolete Agfa process AP41.

It will be unsuccessful if you try to process it in C41 (even at 20C) or in E6 also at 20C.

The best solution, to my knowledge, is to develop it as a black & white film.

You can also have a look here.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/agfachrome-50s-in-b-w-developer.188722/

 

[svetoklik]

The film Agfachrome 50s used the now obsolete Agfa process AP41.

It will be unsuccessful if you try to process it in C41 (even at 20C) or in E6 also at 20C.

The best solution, to my knowledge, is to develop it as a black & white film.

You can also have a look here.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/agfachrome-50s-in-b-w-developer.188722/

Thank you.

 

[lamerko]

The original process is ORWO 9165, quite similar to Agfa 41. The process is no longer used, but it is officially published and all is known about it. The hardest chemical to get is CD1 (TSS, T22, CPV1). I just recently got hold of a small amount of it - I'm going to do some experimenting with these films. I still have 50-60 pieces of ORWO UT-18 (also UT-21, UT-20, UT-16, UK-17), but I don't expect any great results