Trying To Understand Ansel Adam's Books

[kintatsu]

The thing about learning that way, is that it is often more intuitive. Given that he was a trained musician, it makes sense that he would teach that way. It also makes reviewing sections easier and more productive. Given that style, it makes it easier to learn once you "see" the processes as such. Too often, photography books are all about "do this to get that," or a special method. The basis of what's being taught is glossed over for simplicity.

The Zone System does more than make exposure and values understandable, it gives us a common point of reference when discussing images, and makes understanding how shots were made easier. With only a couple bits of information a better understanding of a viewed image is obtained. You don't need to know f/64, 1/8 second, ISO 250, as that tells you nothing. Knowing that 250c/ft2 was placed on Z VI makes the image approachable and allows us to assess our own work more creatively. This knowledge helps us understand how we can use similar settings to "concretize" our own values to match our vision, without having to resort to a mythical magic formula every time.

 

[Steve Smith]

Now I pre-visualise a scene

No you don't... you just visualize it.

That said, an understanding of pre-visualisation and the zone system can help whatever format you choose to shoot.

Aggghhh!!! Go and find your copies of The Camera, The Print and The Negative and tell me the title of the first chapter of each book.


Steve.

 

[bdial]

St Ansel's books, perhaps especially The Negative aren't the best starting point, but they do have a lot of information. Like others have said, I tried to read it long ago, got completely lost and put it down for twenty or so years before looking at it again. In that time I had learned enough from other sources that it began to make sense.

I would recommend reading Fred Picker's The Zone VI Workshop first, then start slogging through Adams.

 

[cjbecker]

Anything Ansel Adams or Zone System related is not a "Instant Coffee" moment.

Best of luck, it is a great journey (it never ends).........

FL Guy

Exactly, I'm finally understand through the process of trial and err

 

[removed account4]

St Ansel's books, perhaps especially The Negative aren't the best starting point, but they do have a lot of information. Like others have said, I tried to read it long ago, got completely lost and put it down for twenty or so years before looking at it again. In that time I had learned enough from other sources that it began to make sense.

I would recommend reading Fred Picker's The Zone VI Workshop first, then start slogging through Adams.

slogging through it is a great description !

 

[MattKing]

No you don't... you just visualize it.



Aggghhh!!! Go and find your copies of The Camera, The Print and The Negative and tell me the title of the first chapter of each book.


Steve.

Steve:

Maybe someone is channelling Minor White

 

[baachitraka]

ZS school of thought is not so complicated and eventually you will understand. I may also recommend 'Beyond The Zone System'.

 

[DF]

'Never imagined I'd get all these responses - in my favor! I thought Adams was the undoubtable, unquestionable G_D of B&W photgraphy. I truly am NOT alone.
Nonetheless, I will try to understand, but with flexability.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

interesting; i found none of AA's texts very difficult to understand, but it helped to read about the same subject(s) from other writers and then, read his text again. after that,the penny dropped.

0)

 

[FL Guy]

DF, don't worry..............

'Never imagined I'd get all these responses - in my favor! I thought Adams was the undoubtable, unquestionable G_D of B&W photgraphy. I truly am NOT alone.
Nonetheless, I will try to understand, but with flexability.

There is no "scorecard" of votes yea/nay related to this. The Adams approach is a very methodical view of photography, and the consensus seems to be that Adams/Minor White/ Zone System discussions aren't quick reads and easily digested. More of a mosaic woven over a long time.

I mentioned earlier in this thread a book from Adams titled "40 photographs and how I created them", it is actually entertaining to read because he was candid about the mistakes he made along the way in making images and he goes from the pre-planning through printing. You might enjoy the book.

Stay Safe

FL Guy

 

[kintatsu]

I mentioned earlier in this thread a book from Adams titled "40 photographs and how I created them", it is actually entertaining to read because he was candid about the mistakes he made along the way in making images and he goes from the pre-planning through printing. You might enjoy the book.

I found that book to be incredibly useful. Seeing how he approached the image, helped see how he approached the development and application of the zone system.

After gaining an understanding of the basics from the chapters in The Negative on exposure and the zone system, re-reading Examples, I was able to find more meaning nad information in the stories. I was also able to follow along with his common reference points for placements, which added a layer to the growing knowledge.

I think the basics he taught will be more approachable for anyone if they understand that it's smaller processes, leading to the final image. That's why the books seem to be the way they are. First learn your camera, then learn about light and film, then learn exposure, then work on the zone system. With those basics, printing can be grasped more readily, as can the larger overall process.

For DF, it can be learned easily, if you try it bite sized stages, and learn from the many helpful souls here.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

Old Buddhist saying

 

[Bill Burk]

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

Old Buddhist saying

I've tried understanding Buddhist sayings. Minor White is easier.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

Old Buddhist saying

Very, very true! As is

"He who is wise is not learned.
He who is learned is not wise."

Bill, that one's for you to work out!

 

[Bill Burk]

Very, very true! As is

"He who is wise is not learned.
He who is learned is not wise."

Bill, that one's for you to work out!

I would guess, otherwise.

 

[kintatsu]

"He who is wise is not learned.
He who is learned is not wise."

Lao Tzu... What next, Confucius says...

 

[DF]

Yes - I WILL get that book, 40 examples. My library has it.

 

[Steve Smith]

Steve:

Maybe someone is channelling Minor White

I believe Edward Weston used the term along with Minor White. I supposed they were not educated as well as Adams who was intelligent enough to know that the pre was not required.

Pre-visualisation must be driving to the scene before you visualise it!


Steve.

 

[Allen Friday]

Sometimes Wikipedia has an entry on point:

"Visualization is a central topic in Ansel Adams' writings about photography, where he defines it as "the ability to anticipate a finished image before making the exposure".[2] The term previsualization has been attributed to Minor White who divided visualization into previsualization, referring to visualization while studying the subject; and postvisualization, referring to remembering the visualized image at printing time. However, White himself said that he learned the idea, which he called a "psychological concept" from Ansel Adams and Edward Weston.[3] Though the term previsualization was and continues to be used by many noteworthy photographers, and had become part of the vernacular, it is often regarded as redundant."

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I believe Edward Weston used the term along with Minor White. I supposed they were not educated as well as Adams who was intelligent enough to know that the pre was not required.

Pre-visualisation must be driving to the scene before you visualise it!


Steve.

I do hope you realise that education and intelligence are two different things... For instance, I have not a clue anent Basque grammar. But because I'm fairly intelligent, I could acquire that education.

 

[noacronym]

I've not read every post in this thread. However, in the 70's and 80's, the Charlotte East Branch Library never had the Ansel Adams series in stock--I kept them checked out and renewed perennially. I boiled them down to a syrup, so to speak. By just using Microdol 1:3, I turned my 35mm into a view camera and zone system combo. Since Microdol 1:3 is like poor-man's pyro, everything was there in the negative, which was the object of "The Negative", so I printed my negatives in a manner to get what I was after. Now we live in a time where digital and computers have fouled up a lifetime of study and skill, and the photographic supplies are all extinct, there's not a lot of use for his books, I'm sorry to say.

 

[kintatsu]

Now we live in a time where digital and computers have fouled up a lifetime of study and skill, and the photographic supplies are all extinct, there's not a lot of use for his books, I'm sorry to say.

Now, more than ever, there is a need for his books. Not just his, but the works of others, including Karsh, Minor White, and any other master. The basics haven't changed 1 iota, although the mentality has.

It makes me sad to see so many potentially good "photographers" just copying everyone else because it must be cool, and shooting until they get something OK.

I think that's why I started getting into the older ways, because I wanted to MAKE photos worth looking at, instead of being a "see and spray" type.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Despite all the stereotypes, there is plenty of evidence that AA did not rigidly follow his own "previsualization" theory. Like most of us, he simply wanted a reasonably versatile negative which
he could later fool around with in various ways till he got what he wanted. I once shared a big two-man
with AA, namely, the biggest collection of "mural"-sized prints of his (actually, 40x60's) assembled in a
public showing up to that point, and believe me, he printed the negs in an entirely different manner than he would have done in a 16X20 print - a lot more poetic, and a lot less contrasty theatrical. In his
own words, there is more than one way to render a musical score. Maybe Minor White made a religion
out of this stuff - he was a great photographer, but otherwise a total kook. I mean, really, the Zone
System is just a toolbox - you pick and choose what you actually need.

 

[Stephen Benskin]

Try and snatch this zone from my hand Grasshopper.

 

[Steve Smith]

there is plenty of evidence that AA did not rigidly follow his own "previsualization" theory.

Didn't you read our posts? He didn't have a pre visualization theory!


Steve.