Trying Stainless Steel Again?

yeknom02 · Mar 29, 2011

Hi all,

I once tried converting from a Paterson Super System 4 tank to an Omega 120 tank (holds 1 120 reel or 2 35mm reels) due to the frequency with which I was developing film. Plastic just wouldn't dry fast enough, and it took more chemistry to cover the film. I eventually gave up on the stainless steel because of some problems, and I want to give it another shot...

Basically, the problems with the steel tank were all in the lid. I like to pour in my chemicals quickly, and the funnel lid of the Paterson was great - dump in your chemistry and watch it swirl down into the tank like a flushed toilet. I found that with pouring things into the steel tank, I was always battling the very thin clearance of the lid, which has to both take in liquid and evacuate air. I had to be verrrrry careful to take it slow, or else the surface tension of the chemistry would take over, and I'd make a bubble. Soon after that, I'd either make a mess or have to pause my pouring to pop the bubble. Who knows how many seconds I'd waste in the process.

Basically, I want to know if anyone else has conquered these problems with the stainless steel tank and how. Or, are these problems I'm just going to have to deal with if I want to use steel tanks?

Valerie · Mar 29, 2011

I hold my tank with a slight tilt, forefinger over the lip of the hole. Any bubbles are instantly popped when they touch my finger. I can pour chems in quickly this way.

MaximusM3 · Mar 29, 2011

What Valerie said. Slight tilt is the key and go steady but not too fast.

Ottrdaemmerung · Mar 29, 2011

Also, for minimum frustration, have a try at the steel tanks that have PVC lids instead of steel caps. I find the PVC lids to be a little more user-friendly, with the added bonus of being much less leaky.

yeknom02 · Mar 29, 2011

Terry, mine does have a PVC (or at least plastic) lid.
Valerie/Maximus, about what angle of tilt would you recommend when you say "slight?" I will have to try this along with the finger trick.

bdial · Mar 29, 2011

You should be able to fill or empty a single (120) reel tank in 10 seconds or less. As mentioned, hold the tank at a slight angle, and pour only into the center part. The outer ring is there to allow the air to escape, but it doesn't work well if the tank is flat. Experiment with some water and an otherwise empty tank and your conversion will be complete.

samcomet · Mar 29, 2011

I've got an old Kindermann tank that does not have a circular air ring but rather the inlet is split in two with one side allowing air to evacuate....as others have stated: a tilt is essential.

jordanstarr · Mar 29, 2011

I use big 8x10 tanks and just load the reels on the stainless steel sticks. This allows me to develop up to 15 rolls at a time and I develop many different rolls at different times, just slide on a new reel. It also allows me more control over agitation to adjust contrast levels.

Gerald C Koch · Mar 29, 2011

I have founnd that the metal lids are really not interchangeable and so I scratch a distinguishing mark on the lid and the tank of each pair. If you switch a lid to another tank you may get some leakage. The plastic lids work very well but tend to get brittle with age and crack.

vpwphoto · Mar 29, 2011

samcomet said:
I've got an old Kindermann tank that does not have a circular air ring but rather the inlet is split in two with one side allowing air to evacuate....as others have stated: a tilt is essential.

My split lid tank is the slowest.

I use some electrical tape around the lid, then I don't worry about dropping or degree of tilt too much.

Rick A · Mar 29, 2011

To find out how much tilt to use when pouring in chems, practice with some water and an empty tank. This way you can determine the optimum angle for your tank.

MattKing · Mar 29, 2011

I do it this way:

1) I place the little lid on the bottom of my sink, with open side down;
2) I prop the tank up with its edge on the little lid;
3) I pour - the angle works fine.

And it is easily repeatable .

yeknom02 · Mar 29, 2011

bdial said:
...Experiment with some water and an otherwise empty tank and your conversion will be complete.

Well, the "conversion" will still take some time even if I master the art of the pour. The other issue I have with 120 in a stainless steel reel which I didn't mention is that I was getting some crescent-moon-shaped kinks in the film.

Ronald Moravec · Mar 29, 2011

Slight tilt when purring in work for decades for me.

I have since learned it is even better to drop the loaded film reel into a tank already profiled with developer.

Position the lid to left of tank. Hover reel over tank with right hand. Start timer with left and then find lid. When you have it , drop the reel, cap, commence agitation.

More than two reels of 35 or 120 requires a lifting rod. I have made them to fit.

Pour out thru the top as only the first minute is critical to even wetting. That you solve buy dropping in.

Rick A · Mar 30, 2011

yeknom02 said:
Well, the "conversion" will still take some time even if I master the art of the pour. The other issue I have with 120 in a stainless steel reel which I didn't mention is that I was getting some crescent-moon-shaped kinks in the film.

The only way I know to avoid the cresent kinks is to remove the film from the backing paper before spooling. This makes it easier to handle the film and not have to fight the backing at the same time. For me, the film almost tries to load itself, maybe you are curving the film too much (its not 35mm). Try rolling the reel on the counter as you load the film. The motion is akin to trying to push the reel and turn it backwards away from the film, simultaniously pushing the film into the reel. Practice with an uncut roll of developed film in the light until you can do it with eyes closed.

Jim Jones · Mar 30, 2011

yeknom02 said:
Terry, mine does have a PVC (or at least plastic) lid.
Valerie/Maximus, about what angle of tilt would you recommend when you say "slight?" I will have to try this along with the finger trick.

I tilt my plastic lid tanks at least 30 degrees while filling, but haven't experimented with other angles. With short development times, prewetting film reduces air bells and uneven development.

yeknom02 · Apr 1, 2011

Time to vent. I finally got some time to develop my film today, and I nailed loading the 120 roll after a long time away from it. Perfect! So I pour all my chemistry out into the graduates to get ready, and I just pull the lid off the tank before my presoak, I guess thinking that it's how I'm going to pour my liquids in. One total brain collapse, and I screw up the roll that I've been waiting to develop for two days. Figuring it will help season my developer, I do all the chemical steps necessary while reciting various mantras not to screw up next time.

Anxious to get a victory, I rinse everything out, dry it, and load two rolls of 35mm street shots that I've been waiting to develop for a week. I set up all the chemicals again, I glance down, and I see that at some point in this whole process I must have mindlessly pulled off the lid AGAIN. So in the span of twenty minutes, I ruined three rolls of film just by wanting to switch back to stainless steel for a change.

I shot a roll of 35mm in a crappy point and shoot just so I can get some satisfaction tomorrow.

Wade D · Apr 3, 2011

That's sad and frustrating. I tried SS tanks/reels for the 1st time last year. Loading the reels was easy enough but the SS tank lids always got stuck so tight it practically took a pry bar to get them apart. I went back to the Patterson system and bought some extra reels so some would always be dry and ready to load. Not bashing SS as it could have just been bad tanks. Just a personal choice.

markbarendt · Apr 3, 2011

Ahhh yes, retraining sucks.

Rick A · Apr 3, 2011

Last year, I was getting ready to pour developer into a tank, so I popped the lid off, and screamed a few obsenities, as I furiously fumbled to place said lid back on (danged turrets syndrome). Anywho, I only fogged a couple (ok, half the roll) of exposures on a roll of 120 Pan F+. Note to self--its the little cap, only remove the little cap!
Forgot to mention, I've been developing film for 45+ years!

yeknom02 · Apr 4, 2011

Well, I finally succeeded again last night, and I must say I enjoy dealing with fewer parts and a smaller tank overall. I just need to make sure I remember my training and maybe find out how to cut down on the occasional drop leaking from the lid.

Trying Stainless Steel Again?

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