Trust!

[cerber0s]

No that doesn't make sense. Whether or not someone has the item he/she still can scam you or not just the same. Proving that the person has the item doesn't make a difference.

It makes perfect sense. If the person doesn’t have the item, it’s most definitely a scam. If the person has the item it might be a scam.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

I guess we should be ready to provide evidence when asked politely, no questions asked, no emotions engaged.

It's a simple cautionary online practice, NOT an accusation to be butthurt about.
And it's probably not wise to force potential buyer to do research about how trustworthy a given online profile is at any given moment - too much work when a simple question can be asked to provide said picture.

It's better to be annoyed by this move (having to ask for such a thing, having to provide the asked evidence) than risking additional layer of scam from buyer perspective. After all it's not a very hard thing to do if you have the item - takes 2 minutes or less and is healthier than taking offense for days.

When online scams are prevalent, I'd argue that people SHOULD ask for evidence as any default trust in things online has been eroded long time ago - this communication will restore this trust somewhat, provided it runs smoothly.


Just a week ago I had to buy 3 items no longer manufactured to have one in good condition despite all deals saying that the item in question is in perfectly good working condition. If I'd been more thorough, I'd spend less money and save my nerves by engaging less in fraudulent/erroneous descriptions.
Trust, but verify. Or as russians say: doverai, no proverai.

 

[Rick A]

It's about ethics and phiosophy but it's not photography and it's about trust. I did quite a few of sales and giving away and getting free stuff from other photrio members. It works out very well when we trust eachother. We just send the item and the money we don't need the other to prove anything. We don't need to receive payment first. We don't need to use paypal. The process is much quicker and save us fee. The fee is what we have to pay when we don't trust eachother.
I was about to sell a thermometer for someone and I did post a picture of the thermometer and I accept the first offer the person made. I also the price was very reasonable. However, the person wanted me to post another picture with hand written note with the date to prove that I have it. I feel offended and I also think how can I trust the person if he doesn't trust me.
However, I would like to thanks member Rick A. who sent me his camera and lens before he receive my payment so I get it quickly. Thank you.

You're very welcome, Chan. I have to disagree somewhat though. Using PayPal isn't necessarily about trust as much as it's about convenience. There are times, when a large sum of money is involved, that PayPal offers some guarantee of safety in the transaction. I've had to file with PP because of a dishonest seller and a dishonest buyer. Both times were resolved in my favor. Generally, I'm a trusting sort, but I have been stiffed but the sums were small, and I just write it off as bad on them.
Caveat emptor.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

It's about ethics and phiosophy but it's not photography and it's about trust. I did quite a few of sales and giving away and getting free stuff from other photrio members. It works out very well when we trust eachother. We just send the item and the money we don't need the other to prove anything. We don't need to receive payment first. We don't need to use paypal. The process is much quicker and save us fee. The fee is what we have to pay when we don't trust eachother.
I was about to sell a thermometer for someone and I did post a picture of the thermometer and I accept the first offer the person made. I also the price was very reasonable. However, the person wanted me to post another picture with hand written note with the date to prove that I have it. I feel offended and I also think how can I trust the person if he doesn't trust me.
However, I would like to thanks member Rick A. who sent me his camera and lens before he receive my payment so I get it quickly. Thank you.

You are absolutely correct. Trust makes life a lot easier. If we can't trust each other, who can we trust? I'm in.

 

[BrianShaw]

You are absolutely correct. Trust makes life a lot easier. If we can't trust each other, who can we trust? I'm in.

It’s embossed on every modern coin of the United States.

 

[cowanw]

I suppose the buyer should provide a written date stamp of his money?

 

[BradS]

.... However, the person wanted me to post another picture with hand written note with the date to prove that I have it. I feel offended and I also think how can I trust the person if he doesn't trust me.
...

Seems like an entirely reasonable request.

Demanding the other person trust you is definitely a red flag...so when you say, "Trust me!" I say, "NO! Absolutely not."
Trust must be earned. Demanding that the other trust you usually has the opposite effect.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I had a long time member of Large format photography forum try to rip me and several others off. Totally out of character. I paid for it as a purchase of merchandise so PayPal and Visa had my back.

Trust but verify, no reason to take offense, just good business.
Best Regards Mike

The one time I used PayPal and Visa on a purchase that went bad, I contacted Visa first and then PayPal. That was not optimal. Once a credit card complaint has been registered PayPal yields all decisions to the credit card. Lesson Learned: Only contact PayPal. One has a time limit to report to the credit card of two weeks to two years. My credit card happens to be 2+ years.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I guess we should be ready to provide evidence when asked politely, no questions asked, no emotions engaged.

It's a simple cautionary online practice, NOT an accusation to be butthurt about.
And it's probably not wise to force potential buyer to do research about how trustworthy a given online profile is at any given moment - too much work when a simple question can be asked to provide said picture.

It's better to be annoyed by this move (having to ask for such a thing, having to provide the asked evidence) than risking additional layer of scam from buyer perspective. After all it's not a very hard thing to do if you have the item - takes 2 minutes or less and is healthier than taking offense for days.

When online scams are prevalent, I'd argue that people SHOULD ask for evidence as any default trust in things online has been eroded long time ago - this communication will restore this trust somewhat, provided it runs smoothly.


Just a week ago I had to buy 3 items no longer manufactured to have one in good condition despite all deals saying that the item in question is in perfectly good working condition. If I'd been more thorough, I'd spend less money and save my nerves by engaging less in fraudulent/erroneous descriptions.
Trust, but verify. Or as russians say: doverai, no proverai.

Sage advice. Well stated too.

 

[TJones]

I suppose the buyer should provide a written date stamp of his money?

Why would that be necessary if the buyer sends the money first?

 

[Sirius Glass]

I suppose the buyer should provide a written date stamp of his money?

But only after the ink on the money has completely dried, so the the ink will not smear.

 

[cowanw]

Why would that be necessary if the buyer sends the money first?

It would not of course, but some us will send goods before payment (believe it or not). As well; some people commit to buy and never pay. Making sure they have the money would surely insure that happens less, eh? or not

Really, I was just extending the logic of "trust but verify". I am not sure when that phrase became accepted as a way to live your life, although I do know where it comes from. I just think it is sad if this forum accepts this way of life as a norm. I don't come here to have to demonstrate I am not a crook. Also, unfairly I realize, I would be much less likely to deal with a person who presumes I am potentially dishonest.

 

[cowanw]

Admittedly I have no idea what a written time stamp is.