Trust the Film

[Bill Burk]

Bill Burk submitted a new resource:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists) - Trust the Film

Thanks to APUG in general, for the road that I took, that has led me to publish this page.

And a special shout out goes to Fred Aspen who over the past two days ran a test that proves that this is valid.

With a little allowance for poetic license, I think film testing can be summed on one page.

http://www.beefalobill.com/images/CallingYourShot-Trust.pdf

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Tom1956]

That's the way I always saw it.

 

[Bill Burk]

Thanks Tom,

I had no idea it would fit on one page ... when I started out thinking about ways to help people test their film.

 

[Tom1956]

Sure, Bill. I have my own honest truthful assessment of things. It's pretty simple minded, but here goes: In this world there are 2 things that can be used to shoot at somebody--cameras and guns. Why couldn't guns go digital instead of cameras and film?

 

[Bill Burk]

Trust the Film
A speed test comes first and then EVERYTHING follows
...for expired or unknown film agreed

Especially when you have got no idea
...what the speed and development should be

Sensitometry is needed, you can’t fake from the middle
...the toe of the film tells the speed

And the tests that you do need to cut through the fog
...since that’s likely the problem you’d see

But WHO does the testing and how far should it go?
...it depends on the road that you follow

When the film is brand new, the scientists at Kodak*
...work hard at the stuff that they know

So TRUST in the film, speed’s a real quality
...that is covered by their guarantee

Just look at the box, see the number that’s there?
...set your meter and away you can go

Now developing film is no big MYSTERY
...despite infinite threads that say so

Take two pictures of gray, doesn’t matter which shade
...one as metered and one bracketed two stops over

Develop the film and hang it to dry
...take your meter and look when it’s done

If the needle dips one stop from one shot to the other
...that turns out to be 0.5 CI

Now what does that mean? Well... on paper MG
...0.5 or a little bit more

Can be printed in darkrooms on Silver Gelatin
...on paper of Grade 2 or Grade 3

Bill Burk

*I work for Kodak but the opinions and positions
...I take are not necessarily those of EKC

 

[Bill Burk]

Why couldn't guns go digital instead of cameras and film?

My children use digital guns but cameras with film.

 

[snapguy]

click

I clicked your link, or at least I thought I did, and all I got was a Dinah Shore recording.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I clicked on the link and it worked. Snapguy must have caused an Operational Assisted Failure. Oafs plague all endeavors, but that is not important now. What is important is that your work is great.

 

[Tom1956]

It WAS a Dinah Shore recording.

 

[Bill Burk]

Thanks Sirius,

It keeps getting distilled down...

With fresh film and standard developer you don't need sensitometry.
With sensitometry you don't need fresh film or standard developer.

 

[Bill Burk]

I clicked your link, or at least I thought I did, and all I got was a Dinah Shore recording.

The link to my pdf lets you see the page in the typeface and formatting I chose.
Haven't figured out how to do that on the web (well I ONCE had it figured out but the site hosting that application went down).

So for your convenience, I posted the same words in plain text.

 

[Bill Burk]

It WAS a Dinah Shore recording.

I'd never heard that song before...

As a record collector, I'm kind of embarrassed to have to admit that.

 

[Tom1956]

You can't restore as many old electronic gadgets as I have an dnot end up with a pile of 78's. But this is your thread, and it's so simple, it's eloquent. But fresh film, and develop it in fresh chemistry, and the rest takes care of itself. Kind of a variation of "you push the button, we do the rest". And nobody did "the rest" better than Eastman Kodak Co. As dependable as sunrise.
Kind of reminds me of the saying "when you tell the truth, you don't have to remember what you said".

 

[David Brown]

Wait! Let me get this straight. Film manufacturing companies ARE NOT lying to me about the speed of their films? :munch:

 

[Bill Burk]

Wait! Let me get this straight. Film manufacturing companies ARE NOT lying to me about the speed of their films? :munch:

What's the saying, trust but verify?

Trust the film speed... but verify the development time. That's how this works. If you develop enough, you get the speed on the box. I need to say this is my opinion, not that of EKC. I've tested a lot and I keep finding the same speed when I hit the development target (give or take 2/3 stop but that's me).

Some films designed to be pushed, might suggest an exposure index that is not the real speed.
-Then instead of looking for one stop drop with a two-stop bracketed pair... you push (develop longer) so maybe there's 1 and 1/3 stop drop (four needle marks on a Pentax Spotmeter V)...

(I also depend on the Delta-X criterion to justify recommending rated speed despite slight variations of development... That is a story for another day.)

 

[snapguy]

Dinah and DIN/ASA/ISO

Back when Dinah Shore was making records Kodak used to lie about film speed. They were afraid Joe Lunchpail would underexpose Verichrome Pan and the company thought it was better if they overexposed.
PS I clicked the wrong button and that's why I got Dinah. Anybody got Julie London and "Cry Me A River"?

 

[Mark Crabtree]

Thanks Sirius,

It keeps getting distilled down...

With fresh film and standard developer you don't need sensitometry.
With sensitometry you don't need fresh film or standard developer.

Now that is starting to make sense to me.

I don't use sensitometry anymore, but have in the past and understand it can be useful. I mostly use seat of the pants testing now and enjoy that more.

 

[Tom1956]

Back when Dinah Shore was making records Kodak used to lie about film speed. They were afraid Joe Lunchpail would underexpose Verichrome Pan and the company thought it was better if they overexposed.
PS I clicked the wrong button and that's why I got Dinah. Anybody got Julie London and "Cry Me A River"?

I got her on vinyl. Probably when she was still Jack Webb's girl.

 

[Arvee]

Nicely done, Bill!

 

[Gerald C Koch]

But, but, but the testanistas will have nothing to do.

 

[Bill Burk]

But, but, but the testanistas will have nothing to do.

This happened to me yesterday. My wife caught me in an uncharacteristically bold comment and she said "You can't say that" to which I tried to backpedal "Well, I'm not saying THAT" and her retort was "You did say THAT" - and she was right.

I am talking about a revolution... But I'm not talking about a revolution.

There will always be a place in my heart for testing to bring a deeper understanding.

 

[Bill Burk]

Nicely done, Bill!

Thanks Fred Aspen, you get credit for being the first to perform the test...

 

[cliveh]

This happened to me yesterday. My wife caught me in an uncharacteristically bold comment and she said "You can't say that" to which I tried to backpedal "Well, I'm not saying THAT" and her retort was "You did say THAT" - and she was right.

I am talking about a revolution... But I'm not talking about a revolution.

There will always be a place in my heart for testing to bring a deeper understanding.

Women don’t actually listen to what you say but interpret their version by the way you say it.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Women don’t actually listen to what you say but interpret their version by the way you say it.

I find that I get in the most trouble when I don't know what it was that I did to get in trouble.

 

[cliveh]

I find that I get in the most trouble when I don't know what it was that I did to get in trouble.

Quite, it's often not what you said, but what you didn't say.