Tri-X in Rodinal, Vitamin-C, and Borax - Test

[Ellis Au]

Hello All!

Long time listener, first time posting.

I started developing my own black and white film at home in a Paterson tank about two years ago. Reading all the formulations about Rodinal got me experimenting a bit with Vitamin C, but I haven't seen many apples to apples comparisons with images. What is the fog people speak of? What is the practical effect of borax?

So...here's my pseudo-scientific test of Rodinal, vitamin C, and borax.

Test conditions:

Photo
-Rolleiflex 2.8F on a tripod
-Kodak Tri-X 400
-Daylight lit
-Incident reading towards lens f/8 @ ISO 400
-Incident reading towards light / camera left f/11 @ ISO 400
-Color checker card's black patch is glossy, enabling a deeper reference/reading patch.

Chemistry
-Filtered Los Angeles tap water was used. Pentek Chlor Plus filter.
-All developers were used between 22-23 degrees C, time compensated via the Massive Dev Chart calculations.
-Vitamin C mix was 1tsp ascobic acid + 1/2tsp of Clorox pHup soda ash/sodium carbonate (this was suggested in this link by Patrick Gainer in order to reduce base fog) in hot water. Mixture was then ice bath cooled to 22-23 degrees C (my ambient temp here) before developing.
-Vitamin C mix with borax was 1tsp ascorbic acid + 1/2tsp of soda ash + 1 tsp borax mixed in hot water, then cooled to 22-23 degrees C.

Developing times
-Rodinal 1+50, base time of 13:00 mins
-Rodinal 1+50 & Vitamin C, base time of 7:00 mins (1+25 time)
-Rodinal 1+50 & Vitamin C+borax, base time 8:30 (plus ~20% from 1+25 time)

Inversion - 1 minute constant gentle inversions at start; subsequently 10 seconds (2-3 inversions) at the top of every minute.

Stop bath - 2 tap water changes with 10 inversions each

Arista Rapid Fixer @ 1+4 for 5:00 minutes

30 second water rinse (as prescribed by the Hypo Wash)

Arista Premium Hypo Wash - @ 1+43 for 2:00 minutes

Washing - Ilford Wash Method (5 inversions, water change, 10 inversions, water change, 20 inversions, dump)

Final wash - LFN 4 drops / L of filtered tap water - 1:00 minute

Scanning - Nikon Coolscan 9000. Custom clamping scan mask/tray by Media Sync for glass-free negative scanning. VueScan software. Fine mode, Media - Image (to scan raw/flat full spectrum DNG), Exposure locked to 1, Curve Low 0.25, Curve High 0.75. Grain reduction disabled, Infrared cleaning disabled. Scanned at 4000dpi.

DNG curves inversion and black and white enabled (to remove any potential color casts) via Capture One Pro. DNGs available by DM, but please only if you're serious. They're ~550MB each!

Here are screenshot comparisons and 1:1 zooms. White border is the scanner mask. Black borders/film rebates left for additional reference. Final images moderately resized to be managable on for web.

Left - Rodinal 1+50, Middle - Rodinal 1+50 with Vitamin C, Right - Rodinal 1+50 with Vitamin C & borax

My impressions:
-The Vitamin C (middle) recipe is extra grainy and has less shadow depth (is this the fog that people talk about?). Though the recipe is reported to reduce fog. Highlights feel more grey (and grainy) and pushed towards the midtones. This feels perceivably the sharpest because of the grain (acutance?).
-Rodinal only (left) and Rodinal/VitC/Borax (right) seem VERY similar. However, grain feels softened/reduced in the borax mix, resulting in blacks/shadows appearing deeper (less fog?).

Let me know your thoughts!

 

[koraks]

What you take out of a test like this is always somewhat subjective, but I'd say that it suggests there is very little reason to tinker with rodinal as there are no very clear benefits to either of the modifications.
Any real benefit would be in the use of a different developer; if this is about optimizing grain (in the sense of reducing graininess while maintaining or optimizing film speed), I'd test rodinal side by side with xtol and see what happens...

Oh, and lest I forget; nice job on the test and the reporting. No, it's not entirely 'scientific', but it's systematic and transparent.

 

[Anon Ymous]

IMHO, Xtol, D76 and Adox Borax MQ are better, well balanced developers.

 

[pentaxuser]

What is it about vitamin C that effectively reduces the 1+50 time down to the 1+25 time? This is a large reduction in time and yet with vitamin C the 1+50 apart from what appears to be more marginally more grain has the same outcome as Rodial 1+25

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Anon Ymous]

What is it about vitamin C that effectively reduces the 1+50 time down to the 1+25 time? This is a large reduction in time and yet with vitamin C the 1+50 apart from what appears to be more marginally more grain has the same outcome as Rodial 1+25

Thanks

pentaxuser

Probably superadditivity.

 

[pentaxuser]

Probably superadditivity.

Well "super" seems to be the right adjective. It has reduced development time by 46% with a 50% reduction in the main ingredient and resulted in a very small increase in grain which depending in the size of the print may not even be noticeable

Now that's meets my definition of "super"

pentaxuser

 

[fs999]

Caffenol CLCS Cold Start at 15°C (59°F) stand 80 min, let raise to 20°C (68°F).



@200 ISO 70 min.


@100 ISO 60 min.

 

[jvo]

very thoughtful and well-presented - it shows that there is no "magic bullet" or super developer, and preferences are subjective. i'm a rodinol fan and although i like your "deeper" blacks in the modified formula, it comes at costs elsewhere.
very well done - thank you!

 

[alanrockwood]

Here's my theory to explain the results. Let's take the first set of images as the baseline (1+50 dilution.)

For the second set you added vitamin C. I am going to assume that you added it in the form of sodium ascorbate. (You added ascorbic acid, but also carbonate, which probably converted the ascorbic acid to ascorbate.) This shortened the development time. There are two probably reasons. One is that ascorbate forms a superadditive pair with para aminophenol. This increases the development rate, regardless of whether the ascorbate itself is active. However, Rodinal is a high pH developer, and if the pH is high enough then ascorbate becomes an active developer itself. As a developer, ascorbate tends to increase grain (or at least that's what I have read.) This probably accounts for the increase in grain in the second series of photos.

In the third set of photos you added borax. This reduced the pH. It probably reduced the pH below the threshold for ascorbate to act directly as a developer. However, it still can act as a superadditive component together with para aminophenol. The result is that your development time is less than series 1 but more than series 2. And, with ascorbate no longer being directly active, the grain enhancing effect of ascorbate development is tamped down, so the grain in the third series is less than in the second series. To my eye it's kind of up in the air whether the third series more grainy or less grainy than the first series.

 

[pentaxuser]

Sounds like a good explanation to me Alan and thanks. However I start from the position of complete ignorance of photographic chemistry.

pentaxuser

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I'd be interested to see how these translated to actual prints instead of just scans.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Caffenol CLCS Cold Start at 15°C (59°F) stand 80 min, let raise to 20°C (68°F).

Are those straight scans of negatives? Or has there been some digital post processing?

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Remind me why you choose Rodinal for fast and grainy film?

 

[fs999]

Are those straight scans of negatives? Or has there been some digital post processing?

I never post process my scans. I only remove dust spots, reframe because I scan with borders, put a signature and resize for internet...