After dredging up the D76 1+3 thread the next few rolls I went with 1+1. For two rolls in a 480ml stainless tank, the charts indicate 10 minutes plus ten percent for the second roll. I tried it and it still doesn"t seem to be enough time. Somewhere in the many threads one member mentioned they had been developing two rolls of Tri-X in a single tank for years using D76 1+1 for 13.5 minutes. This would seem to be about the right amount of time. Any other suggestions?
Tri-X in D76 1+1
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The Kodak tech sheet suggests, Kodak Tri X (at 400 speed) in D76 1+1, 10 mins at 20C
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0005/1435/9356/files/j78.pdf?v=1597070153
The Massive Dev Chart says 9.75 mins.
I wouldn't split hairs over 15 seconds, so I would suggest 10 mins as a starting point.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0005/1435/9356/files/j78.pdf?v=1597070153
The Massive Dev Chart says 9.75 mins.
I wouldn't split hairs over 15 seconds, so I would suggest 10 mins as a starting point.
Try exposing it at EI 200
I suggest not developing two rolls in a 480ml tank. The recommended 10% addition to the time is a compromise for those who insist on economizing, and it will not give the same results as developing one roll in a two roll tank.
OP if your chemicals are fresh, you are doing what the Kodak times suggest and the negs look too thin to you then I'd advise that you try your 13.5 mins If it "overshoots" your target of what you want then at least you have a chance of getting it right the next time
There seems little point in trying again for 10 mins and expecting any change
pentaxuser
There seems little point in trying again for 10 mins and expecting any change
pentaxuser
I already do. I use a light yellow filter and adjust for the one stop filter factor.
The idea is to increase exposure to prop up weak shadows.
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Never believe charts which you haven't tested tested. I would suggest Tri X at 14 minutes in D76 at 1:1 and at 20 degrees C is about right. Give it a try.
I know that I have the minority opinion, but with any new film and developer combo you need to test to find your E.I or personal ISO.
I figured since this combination of Tri-X and D76 has been around for decades there would be a lot of information. I tried the Kodak suggestion of adding 10% more time for two rolls in a 16 ounce tank but it didn't seem to be quite enough. I'll keep experimenting .
There are other factors to take into account, what camera and lens, it is newer all electronic or an older mechanical, what metering, TTL, hand held, ect. Then do you scan or print, if print, diffusion, condenser, point source? I have many all mechanical cameras with aging meters, for Tmax 400 I range from 800 for my Miranda EE, 400 spot on my Konica T3, 600 for T4, 200 for Minolta 101, and 50 for Argus C3 with GE light meter, that by the way matches my Gossen Luna Lux. The tested ISO seems to fit most developers, D76, Clayton F76+ HC 110, I get a bit more speed with Rodinal. With my more modern cameras, Minolta A mount, 9000, 800si 900xi, 9 and 7 I get pretty close to box speed. Kodak always has a disclaimer that ISO should be tested.
Sounds sensible. All anyone seems to be doing is giving you reasons why 10 mins may be wrong for you based on the unknowns of diffuser, condenser, metering,shutter speed accuracy etc. Really what it amounts to is that no-one can say what is the right dev time for you.
So keep experimenting with an additional 10% at time. That way I am pretty sure you will get to the right time for you
Once you've done enough experimenting to get where you want to be, let us know what you settled on or better still let us see the results of an extra 10% at a time
It'll be educational for me at least to see how a negative "progresses" in 10% extra" stages
Thanks
pentaxuser
Last edited:
I just developed a roll of Tri-X. Single roll in a 16 ounce tank FPP-76 1+1, 10 minutes at 20C. It's hard to tell at this point because of two major variables. First was the meter. I normally use a Sekonic 308X in incident mode but this time I wanted to try the Reveni spot meter. Secondly was the camera. The camera is a recently serviced Retina 1 (Type 013). I learned the Compur Rapid shutter speed dial tends to drift from it's setting when adjusting things like focus or cocking the shutter. More than once I set the speed at 1/100th and after the exposure noticed it was now at 1/25th. In the future, the last thing I'll check is the shutter speed. Many of the images on the roll look over exposed, some look spot on. I'll have a better idea when I scan them. Next outing I'll take the Sekonic and the M4-2. That should give me a better baseline.
MattKing
Moderator
If I could get whoever's making now Kodak D76 in one liter packages, I would buy it.
Adox , sold by Freestyle
MattKing
Moderator
Don't get me wrong - I have no problem with anyone choosing one of the competitive products.
It is important though to mention that though when you are using something else, even if it is designed to emulate D-76.
The formula for D-76 is pretty well known and easily made yourself from raw chemicals.
The Film Photography Project FPP-76 is pretty good stuff. Another member posted he found it close enough to the Kodak formula that it was hard to tell the difference. I would like to try the Adox version but it won't be in stock until the end of November. The exposures on the roll are all over the place and that's on me for not checking the shutter speed each time but the edge marking have a good density to them and are easy to read.
Next outing I'll take the Sekonic and the M4-2. That should give me a better baseline.
What I do is set up a test scene, in open shadows, my wife for zone VI skin tone, a swath of white cloth for highlights with texture zone 7, black cloth for shadow details zone III and gray card zone V. I shoot a frame sharting at ISO 25 and work up to 3200. I shot a frame at 25, the using a lens cap shoot a blank frame then ISO 50, blank frame and so on. I print, what I am looking for in a contact sheet is the last frame with shadow details Zone III, that is my E.I Ithen I check skin tones for zone VI and highlights with detail for zone VII. If I have shadow details but blocked highlight need to reduce development time by 20%, if highlights are muddy then increase development time by 10%. It may take a couple of rolls to really drill down to the best time.
I have in the past shoot the same test roll with 2 different cameras. In this case I start at 50, then 100, 200, 400, and 800, that with the blank frames 12 frames, rewind without winding the leader back in. Reload in the second camera, give your self 4 or 5 frames so you won't overrun the first test. then same test the second body.
What I do is set up a test scene, in open shadows, my wife for zone VI skin tone, a swath of white cloth for highlights with texture zone 7, black cloth for shadow details zone III and gray card zone V. I shoot a frame sharting at ISO 25 and work up to 3200. I shot a frame at 25, the using a lens cap shoot a blank frame then ISO 50, blank frame and so on. I print, what I am looking for in a contact sheet is the last frame with shadow details Zone III, that is my E.I Ithen I check skin tones for zone VI and highlights with detail for zone VII. If I have shadow details but blocked highlight need to reduce development time by 20%, if highlights are muddy then increase development time by 10%. It may take a couple of rolls to really drill down to the best time.
I have in the past shoot the same test roll with 2 different cameras. In this case I start at 50, then 100, 200, 400, and 800, that with the blank frames 12 frames, rewind without winding the leader back in. Reload in the second camera, give your self 4 or 5 frames so you won't overrun the first test. then same test the second body.
MattKing
Moderator
And the various commercial packaging options all differ in small but not insignificant ways - so it can really help to know which version is being discussed.
I find the Kodak recommended times give a contrast lower than I want. And I've also stopped using D76 1:1, because it too often doesn't give the results I want. Also, when using a diluted developer, it's important to agitate sufficiently.
With D76 1:1, 13 minutes isn't really that significant an increase over 10 minutes. If your temperature is low by a degree, 13 minutes can equal 10 minutes, practically.
With D76 1:1, 13 minutes isn't really that significant an increase over 10 minutes. If your temperature is low by a degree, 13 minutes can equal 10 minutes, practically.
hopefully not a minority opinion, because it's the right thing to do if you want proper negatives.
You can also buy ILford ID 11 in 1 liter size, tends to be expensive. Foma also sells it's version of Xtol in 1 liter size.
I agree. This is the surest way to get D-76 if the original Kodak branded stuff is absent. Adox has formulated a substitute, similar, but different.
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