Trays -> Slot Processor - > Trays -> Jobo drums?

[logan2z]

My home darkroom is split into a dry space where I expose paper and a wet space for developing prints. The wet space doubles as a bathroom in my house, so it needs to be completely cleaned up at the end of a printing session. It's also a bit space constrained.

When I began printing at home, I started with developing trays. Because of space limitations, I switched to using a Nova Slot Processor for a few years. The small footprint and the 'always ready' nature of the slot processor made using it convenient, but I found the draining/re-filling process a bit of a pain and I ended up going back to trays. I've recently started to print a bit larger using 12"x16" trays for 11"x14" prints and that is becoming problematic given the limited space and the relatively small sinks in the bathroom, which makes cleaning the large trays awkward. So now I'm thinking about alternative solutions and have considered using Jobo print drums. The two downsides of this approach that I'm aware of are the cost of the drums ($400-$500?!) and apparently Jobo only recommends the drums for use with RC paper and I print on fiber. I've read here and elsewhere that people have had success using the drums with fiber paper so perhaps that's not a major limitation. Besides cost, are there any other downsides/gotchas to be aware of? It would be kind of nice to be able to develop prints in daylight rather than keeping my bathroom blacked out all the time.

 

[MattKing]

Look for used Cibachrome or Beseler (or others?) print drums and a rotary agitator.
When I use mine, I use them with RC.

 

[markbau]

I used a CPP for large prints many years ago as I didn't really have room for 20x24 trays. The main downside was the time it took to dry the drums in between doing each print. I used the Jobo drums to do FB paper with no problems and I really can't see why Jobo would say that the drums are only suitable for RC.

 

[gijsbert]

My dark closet can only fit 3 8x10 trays and for larger I use a Uniroller agitator with Unicolor drum for 11x14 and Cibachrome 16x20 drum and also a 20x24 drum (DevTec).
I have only developed RC paper in drums, no experience with FB.
The Ciba and DevTec have no ribs (ie smooth inside) so the paper gets stuck a bit and it takes a bit of fiddling to get the paper out but it works. I have a single tray with a Kodak siphon to finish the wash, especially for the back of the paper. The 20x24 tray for washing doesn't even fit in the bath, let alone if I needed 3!
I've read post about FB paper collapsing in drums, but seeing how stuck the paper is in the rib-less drums I'd imagine that fb paper would get stuck to the sides as well - just don't put too much liquid, but again I haven't done FB in them.
Anyway, it's a bit of hassle but if you only print large once in a while it is fine, and it's nice to have larger than 8x10 prints once in a while!

There is also single tray processing, pouring the liquids in and out every step, but I've haven't tried that.

 

[logan2z]

I really can't see why Jobo would say that the drums are only suitable for RC.

I've read that the ribs inside the drums can leave marks on fiber paper.

Since I do still make test strips from time to time (despite using an RH Designs Analyzer Pro which claims to 'banish the test strip' ), I assume I'd at least need some small trays containing chemistry for that purpose alongside the print drum.

Debating whether or not it's all worth it or if I should just stick with full size trays and live with the awkwardness of washing them in a relatively small sink.

I dream of having a proper darkroom sink one day...

 

[mshchem]

I would look for a Nikor 11x14 rocking print tray. Stay with trays for 8x10. I've processed fiber in Jobo drums no problem. Dev-Tec and Ciba drums used to be so cheap, no longer.

 

[mshchem]

BTW, Jobo doesn't make 28xx series print drums. Only used.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Two thoughts:

See if you can find smaller 11x14 trays. Many tray were made just 11x14, which are significantly less cumbersome than the 12x16 trays (although I really like that size in my big sink!).

When I made larger prints in a bathtub-size sink (I still have my old marine-plywood over-the-tub sink; it stood on pipe legs with suction cups for feet. I've been trying to give it away), I used tray stackers to make 16x20 prints. Two trays in the tray stacker (leaving the middle slot empty) and two in the sink gave me lots of room. Maybe an 11x14-size stacker would solve your space problem.

Best,

Doremus

 

[grahamp]

I used a large Jobo drum on a manual roller for 16x20 prints a few times before I got larger trays. Drying the drum was a bit of a pain (good lint-less paper towel or well-washed cotton seems the best thing). As long as you develop consistently by time, it works. It is a little strange to develop monochrome without seeing it happen.

You can get by with one or two trays if space is at a premium, and just pour out the chemical and pour in the next. If you keep one for developer, the other can swap stop and fix without rinsing. Drain and wipe out the tray(s) at the end of the session, then take them to the bath/shower/larger sink to wash. If you wipe them out there won't be much left to wash.

What are you doing for print washing?

 

[MattKing]

Old, well used linen T-towels are great for darkroom work, including drying drums.
And if you buy them from thrift stores, they are likely to be cheap and to have on them great illustrations of things like the churches of Paris .......

 

[Pieter12]

I would stick with the NOVA. I don't find it to much of a bother to drain--I drain it into 1-gallon water jugs, set on a stool so I can tilt the processor as the levels get lower than the spigots. The last bit gets emptied into a small tray by inverting the processor. I only rinse it once a month, taking it outside and using a garden hose. The footprint and solution life far outweigh and disadvantages for me. BTW, although NOVA does not recommend the Monochrome slot processor for FB, I use it that way all the time and never have had any problems beyond some fine bits of fiber floating in the fixer, easily removed.

 

[gijsbert]

I assume the 12x16 nova with 3 slots gets pretty heavy., might be a bit scary to drain!
Can't one just leave it filled up and not drain it - or at least not often?
I have considered getting one, but they don't come up often on eBay and such. So far drums have filled the niche since I don't print large very often. I do have some 12x16 lith paper so I can totally see wanting space for them trays!

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I'd stick with the Nova as well. I still have mine although I don't use it much any more - I got one of the 16x20 processors. I do have a sink big enough to fit it in so draining it wasn't a big deal. I did get it originally when I had a bathroom darkroom and it fit on the lower shelf of a rolling cart (my enlarger sat on top). It was useful when I had only one bathroom in my apartment, period. I'd wash the prints in a tray in the bathtub. The Nova would get put on the bathroom sink. That way I was able to print up to 16x20 fiber prints at home in a rather compact bathroom.

 

[MattKing]

If you are having challenges with emptying the Nova unit, perhaps an investment in siphoning equipment makes sense.

 

[logan2z]

Thanks for all of the good suggestions, lots of food for thought.

Re: the Nova, besides being a bit of a pain to drain (I don't have a sink large enough for it to sit in), I didn't love the idea of leaving it full of chemicals in the bathroom where someone's child or my curious dog might get into it. I had it on a rolling cart so I could have moved it from the bathroom to another part of the house for safe storage, but that can get a bit dicey when it's full of chemistry that tends to slosh around as the cart moves. Even filing it is a bit of a nuisance since you have to incrementally fill the slots so that there is even pressure on the slot dividers. The slots are narrow so that means using funnels to fill each slot. None of this is that big a deal, of course, but it's just a nuisance that is completely avoidable with trays and tended to undermine its advertised convenience - at least for me.

 

[logan2z]

Can't one just leave it filled up and not drain it - or at least not often?

Yes, you can leave it for a few months before it needs to be completely drained and re-filled. But you do need to replenish the chemistry every ten 8x10" prints, which can be fairly often. So that means draining some of the chemistry from each slot and replenishing with 300m or so of fresh chemistry. When I'm printing new photos that I've never printed before, it doesn't take long to put ten sheets of paper through the processor.

 

[logan2z]

I do have a sink big enough to fit it in so draining it wasn't a big deal.

You're lucky. If I had a sink large enough for it that would make it much easier to live with.

 

[logan2z]

BTW, although NOVA does not recommend the Monochrome slot processor for FB, I use it that way all the time and never have had any problems beyond some fine bits of fiber floating in the fixer, easily removed.

I have the Monochrome model as well and have always used it with FB. I've had absolutely no issues with doing that. I do have additional clips that make it easier to move FB paper in and out of the slots.

 

[logan2z]

What are you doing for print washing?

I use a Nova Washmaster Eco 12"x16" washer.

 

[logan2z]

BTW, Jobo doesn't make 28xx series print drums. Only used.

What's the difference between the 28xx print drums and this Jobo drum which is advertised as a print drum and still seems to be available new?

https://www.jobo.com/en/analogue/3062-jobo-multi-drum-28x35cm-11x14

 

[RalphLambrecht]

My home darkroom is split into a dry space where I expose paper and a wet space for developing prints. The wet space doubles as a bathroom in my house, so it needs to be completely cleaned up at the end of a printing session. It's also a bit space constrained.

When I began printing at home, I started with developing trays. Because of space limitations, I switched to using a Nova Slot Processor for a few years. The small footprint and the 'always ready' nature of the slot processor made using it convenient, but I found the draining/re-filling process a bit of a pain and I ended up going back to trays. I've recently started to print a bit larger using 12"x16" trays for 11"x14" prints and that is becoming problematic given the limited space and the relatively small sinks in the bathroom, which makes cleaning the large trays awkward. So now I'm thinking about alternative solutions and have considered using Jobo print drums. The two downsides of this approach that I'm aware of are the cost of the drums ($400-$500?!) and apparently Jobo only recommends the drums for use with RC paper and I print on fiber. I've read here and elsewhere that people have had success using the drums with fiber paper so perhaps that's not a major limitation. Besides cost, are there any other downsides/gotchas to be aware of? It would be kind of nice to be able to develop prints in daylight rather than keeping my bathroom blacked out all the time.

drums often have leaking issues. Be aware of that. The leaks are of littlee consequence in the Jobo tubs but can be elsewhere.

 

[Pieter12]

I still think the NOVA is the way to go. My darkroom has no plumbing, the processor is on a table/work surface. I would think you could find something to cover the processor so an inquisitive child or pet could not get to the chemicals. Maybe an inverted storage container. It would take a lot to tip it over when full--I don't think that should be a concern, especially since it is not on the floor.

Also, I find that adding fresh developer when the level drops about an inch lets me make a few dozen prints before draining. I use pretty standard pitchers to fill the process and have not had the need to use a funnel.

 

[mshchem]

What's the difference between the 28xx print drums and this Jobo drum which is advertised as a print drum and still seems to be available new?

https://www.jobo.com/en/analogue/3062-jobo-multi-drum-28x35cm-11x14

The print drums have ribs inside that take nifty clips that separate the prints (if you are developing multiple smaller) 2830 holds 2 8x10s or 4 5x7s. 2840 holds 1 11x14 or 2 8x10s etc.

 

[eli griggs]

Look for used Cibachrome or Beseler (or others?) print drums and a rotary agitator.
When I use mine, I use them with RC.

I made a number of beautiful Cibichrome prints using a Beseler motor base and their tanks, lights on after loading the tank, without difficulty.

I used this setup to process both RC and Ilford Galerie Fiber based prints, my main photo paper.

I still have a (different) Beseler motor and tanks that stand by, should Cibachrome or Ilfordchrome should come to market again.

I don't ever recall a marred print from the guide bar.

 

[mshchem]

I made a number of beautiful Cibichrome prints using a Beseler motor base and their tanks, lights on after loading the tank, without difficulty.

I used this setup to process both RC and Ilford Galerie Fiber based prints, my main photo paper.

I still have a (different) Beseler motor and tanks that stand by, should Cibachrome or Ilfordchrome should come to market again.

I don't ever recall a marred print from the guide bar.

Please bring back Cibachrome. Not really that knowledge is lost. Like the Romans building aqueducts.