Traveling in Europe with film?

RattyMouse · Apr 13, 2017

ac12 said:
WARNING, TSA is unpredictable.
At SFO I had a TSA agent open the factory sealed box and tear open the foil bag inside and pull out the roll of 120 film. Then I saw her, and shouted at her. Who knows, she might have unrolled the film to verify it was film. sheeesh.
It was a good thing I wasn't carrying 4x5 sheet film.

That was the last straw, and I switched to digital when I travel.

Crazy. I've traveled 250,000 miles by air over the years and never had any issues with film. I simply leave it firmly packed in my carry on bag and let it get X-rayed. Over and over and over again. It never matters, up to 12 trips through the X-ray scanners, no effect at all. I certainly would not switch to digital over an issue like this.

trendland · Apr 13, 2017

jnanian said:
i've flown to europe a bunch since 2001, including
right after the london subway bombings where the
airport (heathrow) set up scanners like every 50 feet
iso 400. iso 800. never a problem. some film has been
scanned 15-16+ times. last time in mulhouse ( basel europort )
iso800 went through the scanner ( i attempted to have it hand checked they refused
and pointed to a sign on the scanner saying it would be fine, even high iso )and it was fine.
it isn't a matter of luck, unless it is in your luggage, and i have done that too ..
40 rolls of film 200-800 iso, and was fine.

i'm friends with someone who has worked tsa for IDK 15 years.
i haven't seen him in maybe 5 years, but still, even 5 years ago,
your comments would have been completely wrong.
maybe these things you are saying are personal opinions?

My personal opinion to theese facts is quite clear : "under security aspects it is
still not necessary to open 4x5 inch film boxes"

Have a look on the websides of companies wich are in business with
x-ray scanners.

There you can find tecnical. data (shure
not all are published of cause but some)

I did It last year just under interesting general aspects. (They make a big business we should be invest here too)

It cost me only 45min.But it was a little
sticky. If I have it correct in mind (from last year) the amounds of x-ray wafes can be pushed up by operators to a higher level of + 200x in comparision
to standard scanners (5-10 years old)

Therefore forget not only 800ISO films
forgot all of your films also kodachrome25 for example if personal luck will change.

These new equipment is not on every airport but it will come.

And it is suitable to get through massive
steel with a thickness of 25cm (if it is operated on its highest level)

The factor is 200x not 200%.

And what happened with "controls by hand" you can read obove.

Time have changed my friend

with regards

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 13, 2017

Trendland-

That MIGHT be true for the scanners for checked baggage. It is not true for carry-on baggage.

removed account4 · Apr 13, 2017

trendland said:
My personal opinion to theese facts is quite clear : "under security aspects it is
still not necessary to open 4x5 inch film boxes"

Therefore forget not only 800ISO films
forgot all of your films also kodachrome25 for example if personal luck will change.

And it is suitable to get through massive
steel with a thickness of 25cm (if it is operated on its highest level)

Time have changed my friend

with regards

i can''t speak about tsa opening film boxes like that,
they have never done that with my boxes of film.
you need to write " open in complete darkness" on the box
and they will not open it in day light.

airport scanners are not X-rays they do not xray film
or YOU when you pass through the scanners
you seem to be confusing 2 different technologies
current scanners do not damage film.

so if the scanners damage even iso 25 film, why is it that 100s of sheets and rolls i have travelled with
since 1999 have never suffered scanner damage even after some have been scanned 30 times in 1 trip?
your statements might ring true if they acutally did use high powered X-rays to scan the film and you as you pass through
the scanner. but if it was true that mucn unshielded mass radiation would cause lots of trouble for the technicians operating
the equipment and the travellers

trendland · Apr 13, 2017

Yes - you qouted me so as I meant it.
The question is not if film is safe by traveling through europe.

The question is :" Do you have luck with
your film by traveling through europe"

Because film is not safe!
Inspected with
the newest equipment.Believe me that that is the true since 2-3 years.

The most effektive fact in this terms are the regulation they have also changed in
a so massive way that there is no doubt at all.

Neverless that some 1000 passengers
of airlines newer identifies r-ray damaged films so as they do with bad
enlargedments in the 80th.
Heard about that still Fuji had problems
by shipping overseas.
But I am not able to verify this info.
Sure they have their special transport
contracts with releable companies but as we know they are only most releable.
It security chefs get in panic because
they know that their job on international
airports isn't so well done as it should
be - they care about "fuji films please
do not x-ray" I am quite shure.
And if the operator dont knew anything
about film he will handle the fuji palette
as suspect stuff.
Perhaps the airport is in regress perhaps
you will wo der aboud brand new velvia100 and doubt overstorage by Fuji.
R-ray damage seems to look different I know this.

with regards

Wallendo · Apr 13, 2017

trendland said:
...
And it is suitable to get through massive
steel with a thickness of 25cm (if it is operated on its highest level)
...

The amount of radiation required to get through 25cm of steel would be incredibly dangerous to passengers, and especially screening agents.

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 13, 2017

trendland said:
Yes - you qouted me so as I meant it.
The question is not if film is safe by traveling through europe.

The question is :" Do you have luck with
your film by traveling through europe"

Because film is not safe!
Inspected with
the newest equipment.Believe me that that is the true since 2-3 years.

The most effektive fact in this terms are the regulation they have also changed in
a so massive way that there is no doubt at all.

Neverless that some 1000 passengers
of airlines newer identifies r-ray damaged films so as they do with bad
enlargedments in the 80th.
Heard about that still Fuji had problems
by shipping overseas.
But I am not able to verify this info.
Sure they have their special transport
contracts with releable companies but as we know they are only most releable.
It security chefs get in panic because
they know that their job on international
airports isn't so well done as it should
be - they care about "fuji films please
do not x-ray" I am quite shure.
And if the operator dont knew anything
about film he will handle the fuji palette
as suspect stuff.
Perhaps the airport is in regress perhaps
you will wo der aboud brand new velvia100 and doubt overstorage by Fuji.
R-ray damage seems to look different I know this.

with regards

Dude chill out with the alarmism. You're way overreacting, and citing yourself as an authority and not any verifiable source. As I mentioned before - personal experience - I've taken Kodak Portra 800 film to France in 2014, and then the same rolls that I took to France but didn't use, I took to Italy in 2015, then took some of the leftover from Italy with me to Mexico in 2017. In all cases, it has been FINE, no damage. Even the rolls that went through different international airport carry-on scanners in three different countries over a span of three-plus years.

AgX · Apr 13, 2017

Wallendo said:
The amount of radiation required to get through 25cm of steel would be incredibly dangerous to passengers, and especially screening agents.

And the typical Apugger will not schlepp around that plate.

removed account4 · Apr 13, 2017

trendland said:
Yes - you qouted me so as I meant it.
The question is not if film is safe by traveling through europe.

The question is :" Do you have luck with
your film by traveling through europe"

Because film is not safe!
Inspected with
the newest equipment.Believe me that that is the true since 2-3 years.

The most effektive fact in this terms are the regulation they have also changed in
a so massive way that there is no doubt at all.

Neverless that some 1000 passengers
of airlines newer identifies r-ray damaged films so as they do with bad
enlargedments in the 80th.
Heard about that still Fuji had problems
by shipping overseas.
But I am not able to verify this info.
Sure they have their special transport
contracts with releable companies but as we know they are only most releable.
It security chefs get in panic because
they know that their job on international
airports isn't so well done as it should
be - they care about "fuji films please
do not x-ray" I am quite shure.
And if the operator dont knew anything
about film he will handle the fuji palette
as suspect stuff.
Perhaps the airport is in regress perhaps
you will wo der aboud brand new velvia100 and doubt overstorage by Fuji.
R-ray damage seems to look different I know this.

with regards

do as you wish.
if you are worried
don't bring it, bring something else instead.

but me?

i have never had problems with scanners or
xrays in 19 years of travel ( usually with a layover ) so it is scanned
2 extra times.
i have some film that has been scanned
more times that i want to count. and that doesn't include things
being shipped via USPS or FED EX or UPS from the manufacturer to
the stores before i bought it and from the stores to me.800 speed down to 25
i'd be more worried about
cosmic rays and muons or the radiation the film gets in the atmosphere ( IN the plane )
the film proably will get more radiation from those sources
than it does check-in scanners.

worry if you want
i don't plan on worrying.

Sirius Glass · Apr 13, 2017

The carry-on scanners will not hurt film up to ISO 800. The baggage scanners will hurt all film.

Doug Richardson · Apr 14, 2017

I live in Germany and travel Europe and to the states regularly and have never had an issue hand carrying my film and asking for an hand inspection. Even carrying ISO 100-400 only. I will add that TLRs get the X-rays attention more, did get some compliments on it when we pulled it out. On a similar note, I had several packs of the Impossible film with me and that got their attention as well. I think they said the liquid(developer) and battery pack flagged as "suspicious material."
My experience is that the TSA is way more strict than Europe is. You shouldn't have a problem. Enjoy your trip and take lots of pics. Try out the Crazy Crab and the Tomaten restaurants. Very tasty.
-Doug

Prest_400 · Apr 14, 2017

Small anecdote now that it's about Xrays
Bought and shot some Portra in NYC and had it come back to Spain through Stockholm.
120 I ended shooting a 3 months after purchase and developed 3 months after exposing. Half a year and came perfect.

Fast forward to 2017 where I shot a roll of Portra 400 again, left it a month until piled for developmend aand: Surprise, there is a little bit of paper backing texture and imprinting. No Xrays at all. Lesson learned to not leave exposed 120 on the desk table to pick humidity. Into drawers or the refrigerators it will go now.

Huss · Apr 14, 2017

ac12 said:
WARNING, TSA is unpredictable.
At SFO I had a TSA agent open the factory sealed box and tear open the foil bag inside and pull out the roll of 120 film. Then I saw her, and shouted at her. Who knows, she might have unrolled the film to verify it was film. sheeesh.
It was a good thing I wasn't carrying 4x5 sheet film.

That was the last straw, and I switched to digital when I travel.

At LAX (Los Angeles) they opened the foil on one of my 120 rolls, to use that swab device that tests for bad stuff. I had all my film already out of the boxes and in a zip lock bag so it would be easy for them to check.
I'm actually happy with them because they hand checked my film with no complaining etc. In England they refuse hand checks and just xray it.

trendland · Apr 15, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
The carry-on scanners will not hurt film up to ISO 800. The baggage scanners will hurt all film.

As I refered : You usually can forget all your films.
This makes no differences between
Portra 800,Hp5,Velvia100,AdoxCMS40.
You have some old Kodachrome25 ?
Forget them (developed as bw) !

Obviously the x-ray damage is as smaler
as filmspeed is far smaler.

Just ordinary trust me please !!!

removed account4 · Apr 15, 2017

trendland said:
As I refered : You usually can forget all your films.
This makes no differences between
Portra 800,Hp5,Velvia100,AdoxCMS40.
You have some old Kodachrome25 ?
Forget them (developed as bw) !

Obviously the x-ray damage is as smaler
as filmspeed is far smaler.

Just ordinary trust me please !!!

sorry to be a thorn in your side
do you have any examples of scanner damage ?
(not xray damage)

trendland · Apr 15, 2017

My films haven't seen r-rays since 1988 !
I am sorry about - this.

Of cause there are examples (scans of
r-ray damaged films) you can find.
Even damages of films wich couln't caused by baggage scanners - because
they were not with the baggage.

If you have doubts because of your personal experience ?
In spite of that - you need verifiable sources ?

Than let us have a very first look
on this here :

www.Kodak.com/global/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

with regards

Frank53 · Apr 15, 2017

Imo this link is telling us exactly what most posters in this link are saying: do not put your films in checked luggage. In carry on luggage it is safe.
Regards,
Frank

BMbikerider · Apr 15, 2017

There are a lot of people who seem to be looking for a problem when there isn't one. This almost old wives tale has been rumbling on and on for at least 25 years. If the problem was serious this would be highlighted by the film manufacturers The original poster stated he would be using HP5, only 400iso and X Rays will not affect this. Life is too short, stop worrying and go and take pictures instead.

images39 · Apr 15, 2017

My experience traveling to Europe is that it's not worth asking for film to be hand checked. I was denied every time in London, Amsterdam and Madrid. I won't even ask anymore, will just let my carry on bag go though the scanner with my film in it.

In the U.S., I've never been denied a hand check on film by TSA. Even though it's probably not necessary, I still request it, and they always hand check. People like to demonize the TSA, but they have a thankless job looking for a needle in the haystack. They seem to accommodate me, and I accommodate them. It works out okay, in my experience at least.

Dale

Sirius Glass · Apr 15, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
The carry-on scanners will not hurt film up to ISO 800. The baggage scanners will hurt all film.

trendland said:
As I refered : You usually can forget all your films.
This makes no differences between
Portra 800,Hp5,Velvia100,AdoxCMS40.
You have some old Kodachrome25 ?
Forget them (developed as bw) !

Obviously the x-ray damage is as smaler
as filmspeed is far smaler.

Just ordinary trust me please !!!

On my upcoming trip to Europe in May, I will not be taking Ilford Delta 3200 although I could use it on the trip.

xtolsniffer · Apr 16, 2017

I've taken Delta 3200 from Europe to the states, it went through about five scanners and I can't see any effect whatsoever. I was concerned as it is over the safe ISO level but if there is an issue, I can't see it and I've made some 12"x16" prints from 35mm from the negs.

Sirius Glass · Apr 16, 2017

Hmmm ... I may rethink this ...

MattKing · Apr 16, 2017

xtolsniffer said:
I've taken Delta 3200 from Europe to the states, it went through about five scanners and I can't see any effect whatsoever. I was concerned as it is over the safe ISO level but if there is an issue, I can't see it and I've made some 12"x16" prints from 35mm from the negs.

Delta 3200 is an ISO 1000 film that builds contrast slowly (making it well suited for push processing).
So it is quite close to the ISO 800 threshold. It may be that you were fortunate.
By the way, I don't think it matters what EI you shoot the film at or develop for. The ISO rating is a measure of the light sensitivity of the film. Changing how you meter for it or develop it won't (materially) affect that inherent sensitivity.

Ian Grant · Apr 16, 2017

I guess I should chip in. I've been on numerous cruises in the past 10 years as my wife worked onboard a Cruise ship as a guide/translator.

My films were always bought in the UK and usually had around 3 scans before reaching our apartment in Turkey. Once on-board ship they were scanned on arrival and then every day I made a shore visit = so most days, never an issue.

On a trip to South America my films were scanned so many times it was hard to keep track, far more than 20, closer to 30. In the last 20+ years of travelling with film the only place where I'd have been worried was in the US where some airports still used very old scanning equipment which wasn't film safe. But to be fair that old equipment was obviously being replaced as the airport was under going huge renovations.

Just fly, cruise, and enjoy, my LF films are always in boxes in my cagoule, maybe some of my 120 as well, saves being over weight with carry on baggage

Ian

trendland · Apr 17, 2017

'

Sirius Glass said:
On my upcoming trip to Europe in May, I will not be taking Ilford Delta 3200 although I could use it on the trip.

Yes of cause Sirius Glass that sould be
allways necessary to Delta 3200.

with regards

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