Toyo Seiko View 6x8 camera? - 60s? Unusual view camera size.

[LargeFormFigure87]

Hello,

I have been experimenting with large-format photography using a flatbed scanner and old view camera equipment.


My primary choice was TOYO (Seiko) (Sakai) view standards and parts from the 60s as they are relatively cheap.


I was searching for something larger than 5x7 to accommodate a modified flatbed scanner acting as the camera sensor.

During my search for parts, I came across an auction estate sale on Yahoo auctions Japan for various camera parts. (I currently live in Japan)


I thought the item in the sale was going to be an 8x10 standard as it wasn't identified in the listing (only pictures)

It turned out to be a 6x8! It has a 5x7 front standard attached by a bellows to a 6x8.

I haven’t been able to find more information on it and have hesitated to modify it since I had not come across this type or size during my search and would hate to ruin something unique.


I have collected some of the old TOYO view catalogs from the 60s for information but none have this particular model.

I think I briefly mentioned it somewhere and someone said it was used for wetplate photography.


I was wondering if anyone else has come across a model like this or has insight to it.

I have attached a photo and here is a link to other pictures. Help me solve this personal mystery!

Toyo View - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[Kino]

Your best bet for information is a member named @B.S.Kumar , who also lives in Japan and sells here and on the Large Format board.

If I remember correctly, he has a direct relationship with the founders/owners of Toyo, which just recently ceased business after many years.

Hopefully he will see this and help you with the information you seek.

 

[Focomatter]

6 1/2 by 8 1/2 inches was full plate size. That may be what you have.

 

[GregY]

6 1/2 by 8 1/2 inches was full plate size. That may be what you have.

That's what i was thinking as well.

 

[ags2mikon]

Most likely 6.5 x 8.5 inches. Here is a link for 6.5 x 8.5 x-ray film on e-bay, I have no affiliation to the seller. I may order some because I have a whole plate back for my Rittreck. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1667613142...FchNVj0YQfq8qGFoFAx9+L3+I=|tkp:Bk9SR5Tt7Lm6ZQ

 

[GregY]

Most likely 6.5 x 8.5 inches. Here is a link for 6.5 x 8.5 x-ray film on e-bay, I have no affiliation to the seller. I may order some because I have a whole plate back for my Rittreck. https://www.ebay.com/itm/166761314281?_skw=6.5X8.5+XRAY&itmmeta=01JQ9SV6SXY05Z88K9PEEB1V6Y&hash=item26d3bfb7e9:gZMAAOSwrudlRQiO&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1e7k0L06XLbJjSMT47A4gNnPYNlOCkxAVBXlAANjbi1fuTLG2yqvEbRpuMA/2f8J6bWbv31sGsoBveRpLBDCUWXY0GK6hm/ykMDY8o/qzrp8JMoQPgp3UXaIJ7p1weMPEZBfddLstJQNvgcaRm4qM+0cBiZuOcMsUIPXVkqlNvmBUPTsZLTEhIFQmJ+hKRa8gylZgt0e2YWqlNWnf+wBGrOJjy2B0Xp5kHVqiBVplFchNVj0YQfq8qGFoFAx9+L3+I=|tkp:Bk9SR5Tt7Lm6ZQ

Ilford offers this size during their ultra large film offering period every year.
It's a very nice size for small contact prints...

 

[MattKing]

6 1/2 by 8 1/2 inches was full plate size. That may be what you have.

Full plate, half plate and quarter plate are sizes with a real and valued history, even if they aren't as common in some places or in current times.

 

[reddesert]

A minor correction, Toyo cameras were made by a company called "Sakai." Not Seiko. Seiko is a separate company that made camera shutters; the well known watch company is related.
Sakai: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Sakai_Special_Camera_Manufacturing
Seiko/Seikosha/Hattori: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Hattori

That will probably help with google searching.

One of Sakai's earlier cameras, unfortunately not listed on camera-wiki, is the original Sakai Special / Toyo metal folding field camera, labeled 4-3/4 x 6-1/2 on the rear standard. That's half-plate size, and the camera usually shows up with either a standard 4x5 spring back or a half-plate back. So it would not surprise me if Sakai made a whole plate camera.

 

[LargeFormFigure87]

A minor correction, Toyo cameras were made by a company called "Sakai." Not Seiko. Seiko is a separate company that made camera shutters; the well known watch company is related.
Sakai: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Sakai_Special_Camera_Manufacturing
Seiko/Seikosha/Hattori: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Hattori

That will probably help with google searching.

One of Sakai's earlier cameras, unfortunately not listed on camera-wiki, is the original Sakai Special / Toyo metal folding field camera, labeled 4-3/4 x 6-1/2 on the rear standard. That's half-plate size, and the camera usually shows up with either a standard 4x5 spring back or a half-plate back. So it would not surprise me if Sakai made a whole plate camera.

Corrected!. Thank you! -- I should have check the PDF catalogs I have and not just written from memory. ......

 

[koraks]

One of Sakai's earlier cameras, unfortunately not listed on camera-wiki, is the original Sakai Special / Toyo metal folding field camera, labeled 4-3/4 x 6-1/2 on the rear standard. That's half-plate size, and the camera usually shows up with either a standard 4x5 spring back or a half-plate back. So it would not surprise me if Sakai made a whole plate camera.

I have that camera, and it came with a 4x5 spring back as you mentioned. I think I got it from @B.S.Kumar although I'm not 100% certain at this point; it's been a few years. Had to replace the bellows as the old ones were shot. For this camera, an larger back (with an additional bellows I think) was available so it could be used for 5x7" (I think I saw one for sale, once, and stupidly didn't jump on it); maybe there was a half-plate back for it in a similar vein. It is definitely not what's shown in the OP since that's apparently for a monorail camera, but the build and finish looks very much like my Toyo camera.

 

[Ian Grant]

Japanese large format cameras were originally copies of British style field cameras made in India. Viscount Astor was Aide de Campe to the Viceroy of India just before WW1 and along with his wife a major shareholder in Houghton Ltd, who had a subsidiary Houghtons India.

All pre-WWII Japanese field cameras used book-form plate/film holders, of the Imperial sizes, usually Half plate & Whole plate. Post WWII cameras initially still used book-form holders. Toyo's Half Plate Field camera mentioned above initially had a non-standard Half plate back that doesn't take modern International style Half plate, 13x18, or 7x5 film holders. (All have the same external dimensions). The older back can be modified.

I have that camera, and it came with a 4x5 spring back as you mentioned. I think I got it from @B.S.Kumar although I'm not 100% certain at this point; it's been a few years. Had to replace the bellows as the old ones were shot. For this camera, an larger back (with an additional bellows I think) was available so it could be used for 5x7" (I think I saw one for sale, once, and stupidly didn't jump on it); maybe there was a half-plate back for it in a similar vein. It is definitely not what's shown in the OP since that's apparently for a monorail camera, but the build and finish looks very much like my Toyo camera.

The additional extension back was much larger for Whole plate 8½" x 6½".

Ilford dropped Half plate and Whole plate film sizes around 1977, Kodak Ltd made Half plate cameras into the early 1970s.

Ian

 

[koraks]

The additional extension back was much larger for Whole plate 8½" x 6½".

Thanks; yes, that's the one.

 

[Kino]

Most likely 6.5 x 8.5 inches. Here is a link for 6.5 x 8.5 x-ray film on e-bay, I have no affiliation to the seller. I may order some because I have a whole plate back for my Rittreck. https://www.ebay.com/itm/166761314281?_skw=6.5X8.5+XRAY&itmmeta=01JQ9SV6SXY05Z88K9PEEB1V6Y&hash=item26d3bfb7e9:gZMAAOSwrudlRQiO&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA0FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1e7k0L06XLbJjSMT47A4gNnPYNlOCkxAVBXlAANjbi1fuTLG2yqvEbRpuMA/2f8J6bWbv31sGsoBveRpLBDCUWXY0GK6hm/ykMDY8o/qzrp8JMoQPgp3UXaIJ7p1weMPEZBfddLstJQNvgcaRm4qM+0cBiZuOcMsUIPXVkqlNvmBUPTsZLTEhIFQmJ+hKRa8gylZgt0e2YWqlNWnf+wBGrOJjy2B0Xp5kHVqiBVplFchNVj0YQfq8qGFoFAx9+L3+I=|tkp:Bk9SR5Tt7Lm6ZQ

Fuji HRU is less expensive IF you are willing to cut it down from 8x10:

8x10 HRU - FUJI GREEN HR-U X-RAY FILM - FREE SHIPPING | eBay

8x10 Fuji HR-U Green X-ray Film - 100 sheet box.

www.ebay.com

 

[koraks]

Fuji HRU is less expensive IF you are willing to cut it down from 8x10:

And if you live in the US. Xray film has gone out of fashion in e.g. Europe; the only way we can get any at this point is by buying it in the US. IDK what the situation in Japan is, but you'd imagine the Fuji stuff should be available there since it's most likely manufactured in Japan.

 

[reddesert]

I have that camera, and it came with a 4x5 spring back as you mentioned. I think I got it from @B.S.Kumar although I'm not 100% certain at this point; it's been a few years. Had to replace the bellows as the old ones were shot. For this camera, an larger back (with an additional bellows I think) was available so it could be used for 5x7" (I think I saw one for sale, once, and stupidly didn't jump on it); maybe there was a half-plate back for it in a similar vein. It is definitely not what's shown in the OP since that's apparently for a monorail camera, but the build and finish looks very much like my Toyo camera.

Yes, I also have one of the Sakai Special / Toyo Field half-plate cameras. It has the standard 4x5 spring back - it was a mini-outfit I got quite a few years ago. The 4x5 groundglass assembly sits on a larger square plate that detaches from the camera, and the half-plate back takes up most of that plate area. Here's a picture from an ebay listing that shows the two backs, and a few film holders. The listing is https://www.ebay.com/itm/116334355132 - I'm not endorsing this listing, but it's interesting because it has the correct Toyo/Sakai half-plate film holders. One can see that they have the same stylized S as the OP's camera standard. These cameras are not uncommon from Japanese ebay sellers, although many of them seem to have bad bellows now.

The 5x7 extension back for these is the subject of some rumor, there is an old thread on the LFphoto forum about it, and I think B.S. Kumar or somebody suggested that there may have been a 5x7 back for a Toyo monorail that was very similar looking. I'm not sure the 5x7 extension for the field camera is real, and sightings may have been of the whole plate extension back. I am thinking to build my own 5x7 back someday, if I ever get time; the part that interfaces to the camera is a fairly simple shape. But this is hypothetical since I haven't even shot sheet film recently. The path of lesser resistance would be to get a Rittreck with a 5x7 back, I guess.

 

[reddesert]

The 5x7 extension back for these is the subject of some rumor, there is an old thread on the LFphoto forum about it, and I think B.S. Kumar or somebody suggested that there may have been a 5x7 back for a Toyo monorail that was very similar looking. I'm not sure the 5x7 extension for the field camera is real, and sightings may have been of the whole plate extension back.

Excuse the self-reply, in the LFphoto thread that Ian Grant linked, at https://www.largeformatphotography....php?179055-Toyo-Half-Plate-Whole-Plate-Add-on
Kumar said " ... [Whole plate] Expansion back for the Toyo 57D, 57G and the unicorn 57M. This last camera was exactly like the Original Field Half Plate camera, except that it accepted Linhof Technika lens boards and had a 5x7 back. I sold two of these unicorns in the past."

The 57M might explain some of the field camera 5x7 back rumors. I have never seen one myself.

 

[Ian Grant]

It's interesting to see there are variations in the backs of these Toyo Sakai Half Plate cameras. I would not call that one in the eBay link Excellent +5 it shows signs of heavy use.

I have thought of making a 7x5 back for my camera, I'll adapt a wooden back. It is odd that Toyo didn't use the standard sized International half plate film/plate holders like Rittreck.

Ian

 

[John Wiegerink]

I have this very same camera and really like using it. I got mine fairly cheap since it had a moth-riddled bellows that I had to replace. I have been searching for the 5X7 back for almost five years now with no luck. If I didn't have an 8X10 camera that easily takes a 5X7 reducing back I would probably make a back for the Toyo.

 

[Besk]

I had an extra "plate" for the back and attached a 5x7 back from a B&J camera. Pretty simple.