Toxicity and risks of selenium toning

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InExperience

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Dear all,

I use selenium diluted 1 + 19 for toning, I wanted to ask you if there are valid risks for my health.
Today reading the instructions, after I had already toned prints in the past (I should have done this first), recommended using gloves, a mask, etc.

In Tim Rudman's book "Master Printing Course" he says that it is essential to use gloves and good ventilation only at higher concentrations, such as: 1 + 3, 1 + 1 or 1 + 2.

Cheers.
 

iakustov

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Selenium powder should be treated with care as it is toxic. As for the selenium toner solution - I treat it as any other solution like fixer or stop bath and dont put my fingers into it. The smell of ammonia is the only thing that irritates me when toning with commercial selenium toner, so it is advisable to have a good ventilation.
 

Ian Grant

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I used to have a copy of an Ansel Adams video, in it he was Selenium toning no gloves or tongs dipping his fingers in the Toner. He made a comment about how many years he'd been doing it and was still alive. While I don't suggest doing the same the reality is you're far more likely tofrom suffer Selenium deficiency than from the effects of Selenium Toner, it just needs the same care as any other photo chemistry, tongs (or gloves) and wash hands well when needed.

Ian
 

MattKing

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If you spill any, take care that you clean it up. When spills dry, they turn red and become powdery, and in that powder form selenium toner is moderately dangerous if you breathe it into your lungs.
I always wear gloves when I use it, but that is good advice with most darkroom chemicals.
With reasonable care, and fairly fastidious cleanup, you should be fine.
 

miha

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If you spill any, take care that you clean it up. When spills dry, they turn red and become powdery, and in that powder form selenium toner is moderately dangerous if you breathe it into your lungs.
I always wear gloves when I use it, but that is good advice with most darkroom chemicals.
With reasonable care, and fairly fastidious cleanup, you should be fine.
Why do you say 'moderately'?
 

miha

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Sorry, but I find the paper to be incomprehensive.
 

MattKing

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Why do you say 'moderately'?
Because there is some evidence that if you breathe in significant quantities of the dust, over a significant period of time, it may be carcinogenic.
 

Paul Howell

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Take standard precautions, into today's world, we all have masks, use gloves, clean up any spills, wash your tray, I use Edwal 12 and MCM 100, both more toxic than selenium , pretend your in high school chem and be careful.
 

MattKing

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When I use selenium toner, I wear rubber gloves in a well ventilated space. I don't dump exhausted toner down the drain, but replenish it when it gets weak.
 

removed account4

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OP
It is an extremely toxic substance. If you are careful with it, you won't have trouble with it. It is not something to dispose of down your drain it is not harmless and should be used with care.
 
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It is an extremely toxic substance. If you are careful with it, you won't have trouble with it. It is not something to dispose of down your drain it is not harmless and should be used with care.
Excellent advice. Selenium is a heavy metal like lead and mercury.
 

koraks

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Yeah, 'heavy metal' is probably the most unfortunate qualification as it's neither heavy, nor a metal.

As long as it's not in the form of dust, it's not a severe concern in terms of health & safety. Selenium toner contains a fairly small amount of selenium, particularly in its working dilution. Of course, discarding used selenium toner is not good practice, but in all honesty, I doubt it will have very serious effects in a typical city sewer system. This is not in any way an attempt to condone discarding selenium toner down the drain! But it's also not very likely that it will make the fishes in downstream rivers go belly up if a dozen photographers occasionally ditch a few hundred ml's of Se toner down the drain in a 100k inhabitant city, nor is it likely that your domestic septic tank will go awry if some trace amounts of Se toner end up in it. It won't breach the skin barrier so dipping your fingers into a working stock of selenium toner won't poison you, and even if you lick your fingers afterwards (obviously, don't!!!) it's not likely you'll get sick or die from it.

In sane use of selenium toner, probably the most relevant health concern is the ammonia odor which can irritate mucous membranes in your airways, and not so much the selenium itself.

Having said all of the above: use it in a sane manner. Mop up any spills and wash the cloth used well so you don't get dried selenium toner and the risk of dry selenium powder floating around in the air (not likely to happen in any significant amounts in any case, but you know, just apply common sense and clean stuff up). Wash hands after toning prints. Don't throw used toner down the drain, but either use a replenished system, or, if your working solution for some reason goes bad (it can happen), take it to a suitable waste collection/treatment facility. Such measures are mostly aimed at further reducing any environmental and health load that is already minimal to the lowest reasonably achievable level, and not so much measures taken to prevent severe environmental and health effects, which are just not to be anticipated with amateur use (i.e. occasional toning of some prints).
 

pentaxuser

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so dipping your fingers into a working stock of selenium toner won't poison you, and even if you lick your fingers afterwards (obviously, don't!!!) it's not likely you'll get sick or die from it.
I might try the occasional lick then. It should save money on purchasing Brazil nuts which is the other source of selenium :D

pentaxuser
 

removed account4

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I might try the occasional lick then. It should save money on purchasing Brazil nuts which is the other source of selenium :D

pentaxuser

:wink:. I saw that episode of House as well. the trick is to have a never ending source of insect larva ( sorry I don't know which one ) to make a tea out of and drink if you have too many Brazil nuts.
 

pentaxuser

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:wink:. I saw that episode of House as well. the trick is to have a never ending source of insect larva ( sorry I don't know which one ) to make a tea out of and drink if you have too many Brazil nuts.
I have never seen House so I am unfamiliar with it but I seem to recall a previous conversation about how many Brazil nuts you can eat before suffering from serious excess selenium - allegedly. It would seem to be enough such that I would be visiting my doctor if I had eaten the number specified. Not to find an antidote so much as finding out which strange addiction I had picked up :D

pentaxuser
 
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When I use selenium toner, I wear rubber gloves in a well ventilated space. I don't dump exhausted toner down the drain, but replenish it when it gets weak.

OP
It is an extremely toxic substance. If you are careful with it, you won't have trouble with it. It is not something to dispose of down your drain it is not harmless and should be used with care.

While I might quibble with the designation, "extremely toxic substance," I certainly recommend handling selenium toner with utmost care. And, contrary to what has been mentioned above, I believe that selenium can be absorbed through the skin, albeit slowly. So, although Saint Ansel used his bare hands to tone with, do wear gloves or use tongs when toning, wipe up spills and wash trays and hands after the toning session.

I also recommend the practice of replenishing and reusing toner. I have a couple gallons that have been going for well over ten years; they still tone just fine. When toning times to achieve the desired tone become too long, simply add a bit of the toner concentrated stock solution to the working solution to increase its activity. Start small, it doesn't take much. Then, simply filter the working solution before and after use (coffee filter or the like) to filter out the black precipitate that forms. Replenishing and reusing toner is not only more economical and keeps you from discarding selenium into the sewer or septic system, it also has the advantage that the working solution smells less.

Best,

Doremus
 
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