Toxicity and risks of selenium toning

Patrick Robert James · Jan 3, 2021

First off, just because AA did something doesn't mean you should do it. The world has come a long way in the last 40 years. I don't think it is a coincidence that a lot of older photographers had shorter than usual lives.

I just apply the same rules to whatever chemicals I am using.

Never touch them.
Good ventilation.
Mask with powders.

When I mix chemicals I usually do it outside. When I am dealing with some chems I wear gloves just in case. For example, the developer tank might leak and I don't want Pyrogallol on my skin.

wyofilm · Jan 3, 2021

Patrick Robert James said:
I don't think it is a coincidence that a lot of older photographers had shorter than usual lives.

A lot of photographers had longer than usual lives. Data are lumpy. So unless there is real science to back up your claims that there is causality between photographer shortened life expectancy and photographic chemicals your statement is unfounded fear mongering.

Some photography chemicals can be hazardous, others are not. If you don't know which are which, your method of treating them all as hazardous is sound.

JBrunner · Jan 3, 2021

Toxicity is relative to exposure amounts and methods. Water, for instance, is quite deadly if a sufficient quantity is inhaled. The knee jerk vilification or vindication of substances is quite an interesting bit of conjecture, especially when it comes dark room chemicals by people who have no qualms about the cleaning products they use or the awful things they purposely ingest.
Selenium has been a popular treatment for dandruff. Does that make it benign? No. Does the fact that it is not benign make it dangerous? No. Your methods and behavior are the variables. YMMV.

AgX · Jan 3, 2021

JBrunner said:
Your methods and behavior are the variables.

And the prerequisite of any toxicity is contact.
If a potentially toxic substance in the fluid phase, does not form a vapour, a respirator makes no sense at all.
Unless you enable reactions that would releaee a toxic gas out of it or unless you spray that liquid which by this is turned into an aerosol.

Wayne · Jan 3, 2021

I'm pretty sure a bottle of KRST froze and cracked and evaporated in my darkroom a number of years ago. All my hair fell out, but that happened years earlier.

Sirius Glass · Jan 3, 2021

JBrunner said:
Toxicity is relative to exposure amounts and methods. Water, for instance, is quite deadly if a sufficient quantity is inhaled. The knee jerk vilification or vindication of substances is quite an interesting bit of conjecture, especially when it comes dark room chemicals by people who have no qualms about the cleaning products they use or the awful things they purposely ingest.
Selenium has been a popular treatment for dandruff. Does that make it benign? No. Does the fact that it is not benign make it dangerous? No. Your methods and behavior are the variables. YMMV.

More people die from Dihydrogen Oxide related deaths than any other chemical!

pentaxuser · Jan 3, 2021

Wayne said:
I'm pretty sure a bottle of KRST froze and cracked and evaporated in my darkroom a number of years ago. All my hair fell out, but that happened years earlier.

It is funny that you should mention hair falling out as I am convinced that "in my day" and at the same age as a lot of today's receders (hairwise) I cannot recall hardly anyone who didn't have a good head of hair . Most of the receders today have never been near a darkroom or its chemicals.

pentaxuser

DREW WILEY · Jan 3, 2021

Anybody handling this kind of stuff without rubber gloves and common sense ventilation is just plain stupid in this day and age. You can't go by what people imagined they got away with in earlier generations. Average lifespans were shorter. All kinds of chemical products now entirely outlawed were once mass marketed as harmless. Others might have sensitization effects, like is well known with metol. We use lots of sodium sulfite; it's considered so harmless that it's routinely used as a preservative in domestic wines and fast food joint salads. But one bite of that kind of salad will send some people on an ambulance ride, including my own sister. When the hair started falling off people working at the shipyards or even living in the vicinity, it wasn't funny.

Relative to selenium itself, it was specifically monitored by the EPA in relation to hospital XRay facilities, where the volumes greatly exceeded home darkroom use. And everyone by now should be aware of its mutagenic effects due to the infamous Kersterson incident. I had a close friend in the EPA in charge of that. When in doubt, take the side of caution. Disposable nitrile gloves are cheap enough. Don't inhale heavy metal dusts or other chemical powders. Basic common sense.

AgX · Jan 3, 2021

What has selenium to do with hospital X-ray facilities?

removed account4 · Jan 3, 2021

Doremus Scudder said:
And, eat those Brazil nuts in moderation, especially if you're toning without gloves!

that's not an easy task especially if one is drunk on horseshoe crab blood because instead of best practices they drank it instead of toned with it. makes you loopy, grow 8 eyes, an exoskeleton and a telson ...
it all balances out though since I have a revigator. mmmm. yum!
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ef/68/d7/ef68d778309b6519bb7c3c1702ccc745.jpg

pentaxuser · Jan 3, 2021

DREW WILEY said:
We use lots of sodium sulfite; it's considered so harmless that it's routinely used as a preservative in domestic wines and fast food joint salads. But one bite of that kind of salad will send some people on an ambulance ride, including my own sister. When the hair started falling off people working at the shipyards or even living in the vicinity, it wasn't funny.

.

What's the link between sodium sulfite as a preservative in wines and salads and hair falling out at shipyards or in the vicinity of shipyards or are the two unconnected. If they are then isn't this similar to the fact that a small percentage of the population have a serious nut( the kind you eat that is ) allergy which can kill and the fact that all of the rest of the population is fine eating nuts If the shipyard problems are unconnected then what caused that and what's its connection to liquid selenium toner and its use?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Wayne · Jan 3, 2021

pentaxuser said:
What's the link between sodium sulfite as a preservative in wines and salads and hair falling out at shipyards or in the vicinity of shipyards or are the two unconnected. If they are then isn't this similar to the fact that a small percentage of the population have a serious nut( the kind you eat that is ) allergy which can kill and the fact that all of the rest of the population is fine eating nuts If the shipyard problems are unconnected then what caused that and what's its connection to liquid selenium toner and its use?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Oooohhhh......don't....

MattKing · Jan 3, 2021

pentaxuser said:
It is funny that you should mention hair falling out as I am convinced that "in my day" and at the same age as a lot of today's receders (hairwise) I cannot recall hardly anyone who didn't have a good head of hair . Most of the receders today have never been near a darkroom or its chemicals.

pentaxuser

My Dad lost his hair in his 20s, due to a bad fever, while in the RCAF during WWII.
He didn't start at Kodak until after his discharge.
How did his hair know?

pentaxuser · Jan 4, 2021

MattKing said:
My Dad lost his hair in his 20s, due to a bad fever, while in the RCAF during WWII.
He didn't start at Kodak until after his discharge.
How did his hair know?

Come on, there's a simple answer to this, surely Matt? The hair jumped before it was pushed since being connected through the top of your Dad's head to his subconscious in his brain, it had access to the future which was the dreaded Kodak

pentaxuser

DREW WILEY · Jan 4, 2021

Sodium sulfite is ordinarily considered harmless; but a certain percent of the population is highly allergic to it. That's one kind of issue - allergies and sensitization. Hair falling out around shipyards and military facilities has nothing to do with male-pattern baldness. Men's hair, women's hair, children's hair, terrible illnesses and a lot of premature death. Many of these places are now Superfund cleanup sites due to heavy metal contamination. But the people who worked and lived there were told it was safe. The last ten years before I retired I sold tremendous amounts of specialized hazmat equipment to all kinds of commercial and govt / military agencies. We held EPA licensing training for thousands of contractors. I've seen a lot of very sick people due to heavy metal poisoning, including alt process photographic chemicals. Seen it all before. If some of you want to act and talk like Bozos, have at it. It's your health.

Wayne · Jan 4, 2021

pentaxuser said:
What's the link between sodium sulfite as a preservative in wines and salads and hair falling out at shipyards or in the vicinity of shipyards or are the two unconnected. If they are then isn't this similar to the fact that a small percentage of the population have a serious nut( the kind you eat that is ) allergy which can kill and the fact that all of the rest of the population is fine eating nuts If the shipyard problems are unconnected then what caused that and what's its connection to liquid selenium toner and its use?

Thanks

pentaxuser

So you see, the answer is...absolutely nothing.

pentaxuser · Jan 4, 2021

Wayne said:
So you see, the answer is...absolutely nothing.

Well it sounds as if it is potent enough to make us talk like bozos so might be more dangerous than we thought

pentaxuser

DREW WILEY · Jan 5, 2021

I've got to get back to my real job. I don't have any more spare time to substitute teach the Troll Junior High Marching Kazoo Band.

Sirius Glass · Jan 5, 2021

DREW WILEY said:
I've got to get back to my real job. I don't have any more spare time to substitute teach the Troll Junior High Marching Kazoo Band.

Congratulations! May it go very well for you.

DREW WILEY · Jan 5, 2021

Just making an analogy. I meant either heading back into the darkroom or for a small camera walk while the sun is briefly out. Recovering from a minor case of covid, so have been trapped in the house the past 10 days. Yes, I'd be welcomed back at my old career - but at 71, I think I deserve to be doing something else instead.

Toxicity and risks of selenium toning

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