Tough Rangefinder for $500 or less?

[Müller Schmid]

I would really like to have a budget rangefinder $500 or less for a body and a single lens that has been CLA'd and one that I wont worry about knocking around a bit.

I always struggle with the cost of film but I cant keep away from it. I buy film cameras and then sell them because it's too expensive to deal with the film and then miss the experience. I've had the Contax G1 and G2s which were great but I want something with manual focus. I loved my Leica M240 and really beat the crap out of it (I know it's wrong but I used it) would like to get something close to the feel of that camera in terms of ergonomics. I don't need a light meter (although a working one is a plus).

I am considering a FED 1, FED 3, Kiev II, Canon P, maybe a Bessa? What would you recommend?

 

[Huss]

Bessa will be way out of your price range.

I’ve had a bunch of the cameras that you mention. And out of all of those… get a Nikon S2 W 50mm lens.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Of those you mentioned, Canon P is the best option. I guess you could get lucky and get, say a Leica IIIc or so for that price, but most likely wont have been CLA so would say quite risky.

 

[ic-racer]

Yes, I was going to suggest Bessa R4M, which I got for less than $600 new. Lee Friedlander used that model and suggested I should get one when I met him. But I see they are out of production now . Maybe you can find a used one.

Since he mentioned the 21mm viewfinder, I naturally thought he had the 21mm lens, so that is the lens I got. Though, in retrospect, he never mentioned the lens he uses. Either way, the lens is interchangeable, though I have no other M mount lenses to try as I'm not in to that system.

I don't have that many other rangefinders with which to compare 'Toughness.' But, I'd call the Bessa the most fragile compared to the only other rangefinders I have:

Horseman VH-R
Argus C44
Argus C2 "Brick"

I did have a new Zorki 4 that someone gave to me, but it was kind of junky and very hard to use so I gave it way to the next person...

 

[Paul Howell]

Canon P or 7, the old Soviet Cameras have their fans but from I've read, mostly here on Phototrio, are not all that well made and reliable. I see Canon 7 going for under $300. I had a 7s, it was by second body to my Nikon SLR when a working PJ, although not as rugged as my Leica IIIG it was much easier to load film and has built in frame finders for a number of lens. If you set a 7 or 7s with a working meters a bonus.

 

[Huss]

Yes, I was going to suggest Bessa R4M, which I got for less than $600 new. Lee Friedlander used that model and suggested I should get one when I met him. But I see they are out of production now . Maybe you can find a used one.

Used Bessa R4M is now about $1400

 

[ic-racer]

Used Bessa R4M is now about $1400

I actually just checked the CameraQuest site (where I got mine) and they have "THE LAST NEW ONE" for $3500.

Maybe a "Ten Dollar Leica" is a better option now....

Actually I'm no fan or expert on rangefinders. All my pictures come out blurry, though they look sharp when I press the button...and what is that annoying yellow square in the middle of my subject...

 

[freecitizen]

I bought a Canon Canonet with case in good working condition at a garage sale last Sunday for $20.

The rangefinder works well and it will make good pictures if you can live with a fixed 45/1.9 lens.

I was lucky, but they are around. At that price I don't have to worry about knocking it around a bit.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[Huss]

It's kinda sad to think that basically you are scraping the barrel trying to get good RF gear for cheap, but if you switched over to looking at an SLR, $500 will get you amazing kit.

That being said, $500 can get you a very nice Nikon S2 w 50 (my pick at that price point), and for about $200-$300 a nice Canon P w lens which I also used to have.
The nice thing about both those cameras is as they don't have meters, you will not be annoyed by the fact that the meter on an old camera may be broken and/or inaccurate.

 

[AnselMortensen]

My vote goes for a Canon P.
Lots of LTM lenses available to fit your budget.
I have one as a walking-around camera.
Nice big viewfinder, easy to load...kinda like a rangefinder version of an FTb.
Almost all of them have wrinkled shutter curtains to some degree, mine included, however mine works fine.

 

[Huss]

Canon P ltm has a much wider selection of lenses than the Nikon S mount.

 

[Paul Howell]

If all you are looking for is rangefinder with a normal lens then as mentioned by freecitizen a Canon QL 1.7, Konica S2 or 3, as well as Minolta who made a range of fixed lens point and shoots. I have the Canon, the Wards Version of the Konica S2, and a Minolta, not as rugged as the Canon P, but for a single lens, all have pretty good metering, the one in the higher price range is the Konica S3, when field and stripped by Modern Photography gave the 38mms lens a rave review, as good as a Leica, downside is no manual exposure.

 

[Müller Schmid]

I don't think I want to go the fixed lens route, those cameras (at least the ones I've experienced) don't look and feel that way I want them to.

If I am "scraping the bottom of the barrel" how much more do I have to spend?

Even a nicer CLA'd Kiev 2 or 4 wouldn't be reliable?

 

[jgoody]

IMHO Canon P or 7 (or even an older L2) is your best bet - LTM lenses are plentiful. Both Canon and Nikon made good LTM lenses. BTW I have Huss's old P - still shoots like a champ. Canon 7 has the best viewfinder of the bunch. I doubt you will find a CLAed one but they're solid cameras. The metal shutters sometimes (often) have wrinkles but don't seem to effect performance. My P has wrinkles, my 7 is pristine, but they both work. The 7 has a selenium meter which seems ok in my example, but no accessory shoe. The P has no meter, but has the shoe.

 

[Don_ih]

I don't think I want to go the fixed lens route, those cameras (at least the ones I've experienced) don't look and feel that way I want them to.

If I am "scraping the bottom of the barrel" how much more do I have to spend?

Even a nicer CLA'd Kiev 2 or 4 wouldn't be reliable?

A serviced Kiev 4 would be reliable. It's a bit weird to use, if you're used to a Leica, though.
Now a Zorki 4 with a good Industar is a good combo and can cost less than $100.

A couple of years ago, you could've got a Leica IIIa with an Elmar for under $500. Don't think that would happen, now, though.

I have a Canon VL. That is a camera you could bang around. It's got a great viewfinder, switchable between 50 and 35. It's cheap, too. Mine has a non-working selftimer, but who cares? That plus a good Serenar would definitely be under $500.

 

[Huss]

I don't think I want to go the fixed lens route, those cameras (at least the ones I've experienced) don't look and feel that way I want them to.

If I am "scraping the bottom of the barrel" how much more do I have to spend?

Even a nicer CLA'd Kiev 2 or 4 wouldn't be reliable?

I've had all the Soviet RF cameras - and the Canon P is so much nicer in every way. A nice P with good lens would be under $300.

Basically the quality/price steps in 35mm interchangeable RF cameras with lens that I recommend are (based on all that I have used at those price points):

Under $100 Fed 2

Under $300 Canon P

Under $500 Nikon S2

Over $1000 Leica M

 

[Müller Schmid]

What is improved with the Nikon S2 over the Canon P and V and VI series?

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

I don't think I want to go the fixed lens route, those cameras (at least the ones I've experienced) don't look and feel that way I want them to.

If I am "scraping the bottom of the barrel" how much more do I have to spend?

Even a nicer CLA'd Kiev 2 or 4 wouldn't be reliable?

If CLA, Kiev 2/4 can be reliable. But I would suggest to find a dealer that offer return/refund. Some Kiev 4 batches where consistently bad, if dealer offer you a working, CLA one, I would say go for it. I use a Kiev4 with a Jupiter 8 and a Jupiter 12 on a regular basis and haven't had any issues with it but camera was well taken for and CLAd when I got it.

That is, if you don't mind the particular Kiev's aroma

Marcelo.

 

[mtnbkr]

FWIW, I've owned and used a Canon VT for a couple years now. Mine hasn't yet needed a CLA and the shutter speeds are still accurate. The cloth shutter did have a couple pinholes, but they were easily touched up with some liquid electric tape and have been fine ever since.

My only complaint with it is the tiny and cluttered numbering on the main shutter speed dial, though that's as much my aging eyes' fault as anything. I think I paid about $150 for the body and $80ish for the Canon 50/1.8 lens. Another $225 got me a Voigtlander 35/2.5 to go with it.

Chris

 

[Huss]

What is improved with the Nikon S2 over the Canon P and V and VI series?

The build quality is better, the feel and handling is nicer. The VF is better. Downside is it uses the Nikon S mount and so lens choices are fewer.

 

[Müller Schmid]

Interesting, okay I will hunt for a Nikon S2. I don't need more than 3 lenses max but really just want one 50mm to work with until I know the camera is working for me.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Interesting, okay I will hunt for a Nikon S2. I don't need more than 3 lenses max but really just want one 50mm to work with until I know the camera is working for me.

The 50mm f/2 is a fine lens and will cost you less than the 50mm f/1.4.

There are plenty of lens options for the Nikon S system, as shown here (although some are tough to find):

Nikon S system

lens-db.com

Camera Quest's page on the S2 has some good info:

Nikon S2

 

[Müller Schmid]

Thank you for the info.

I am a long time Nikon fan.
My first ever real camera was a Nikon N70, then I had a D300 (my favorite digital camera after the M240) and I also have a Nikon FA that I am quite fond of.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Most important things to look out for is rangefinder alignment and contrast of the rangefinder patch. The S2 has good reputation on both, as opposed to the S3, whose patch tend to lose contrast with the years, and the Contax iia/iiia series, whose rangefinders can totally become misaligned. Nevertheless, always ask before buying. Had to send back a Contax iia last year because of rangefinder misalignment. Wasn't mentioned in the add, to I was OK for the refund, but still, I should have asked.

BTW, a good, working Contax iia with a clear, aligned rangefinder, is also a fine option. Surprised it hasn't been mentioned here. Runs about the same price as the S2. The Russian copies (Kiev) are hit-and-miss, so I wouldn't recommend one, except if your budget is real tight (the can be had as cheap as 150$) and you feel you can trust the seller.

 

[Müller Schmid]

Any recommended sources for a Contax iia or Nikon? I know of some good Leica specialists when I was hunting down an M5 and M3.