Toning Ratio

[PhotoBob]

Does anyone have any good advice from experience using different ratios of selenium toner to water.
I would like some experienced comments on the tonal changes at different ratios if this is possible.
I would prefer a cold steel blue as opposed to a light sepia/purple.
Using Ilford MG IV FB
Thank You

 

[Ian Grant]

MG IV FB doesn't really change much with |Selenium as it's not a warm tone paper.

Ian

 

[3e8]

I've used Ilford selenium toner 1:4 with ilford MGIV FB matte. It will go to a bluish purple if toned for about 7 minutes. If you are looking for blue, cool tones, perhaps a cooltone (benzotriazole) developer or gold toner would work better. I've not tried wither, but in theory, they should give you blueish cooler tones.

Cheers,
Bryan

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Depends on the paper, time in the toner, the age and exhaustion of the toner, etc., etc. In other words, there is no hard and fast relationship between toner dilution and change in image tone.

Experiment; change times, dilutions, papers, etc. till you find what you like. It is largely a visual process. Keep notes so you know what papers react how to weaker or stronger toner. Watch out for split toning (some papers tone faster in the shadows than the highlights).

FYI: Selenium toner adds red/purple to the image tone. At high dilutions and/or short times, it neutralizes the greenish cast many papers have, and moves the image tone first to a more neutral black. It will not "cool" the tone of a print at all. If you want cooler colors (i.e., more blue-blacks, try different developers, benzotriazole and/or gold toning.

And yes, I am am speaking from experience. I tweak the dilution of my selenium toner by adding small amounts of toner or water to get the time/tone I am after. It is only predictable if all of the parameters are the same (paper, batch, print developer and time, etc., etc.,). The process is rendered practically unpredictable by the fact that each print run through a toning solution removes some of the toner and makes it weaker. I know of no way to accurately replenish, since every print is a bit different. The end result is that toning times lengthen and the aggressiveness of the tonal shift falls off with continued use. I replenish by feel, adding a bit of stock toner solution to the working solution when I feel that the times are too long or I'm not getting the tone I want.

BTW, don't toss your toning solution. Filter it, save it, replenish it and use it forever. Don't burden the environment with heavy metals!

Have fun,

Doremus Scudder

www.DoremusScudder.com

 

[Colin Corneau]

Doremus, how does one replenish selenium toner? Many thanks for the advice.

@PhotoBob - Look into Ilford's line of cooltone papers (and corresponding cooltone developers) if you're interested in that look.

 

[fschifano]

Simply by adding some concentrate to you already used working solution. How much, you say? Hard to tell. But the way I see it, depth of toning has to do with dilution time and temperature. Use a very dilute working solution for a long time, or a more concentrated one for less time and it's all the same. Fortunately, this can all be done by inspections and with a little practice, can be controlled to give you what you want. What it will not do is what Doremus said. It will not automatically give colder tones. It will always try to shift the color warmer.

 

[brian steinberger]

PhotoBob, I use MGIV in LPD 1:4 for 2 minutes. I tone in Kodak Selenium toner for 4 minutes at a dilution of 1:9. I love the cold tones.

 

[Mark Fisher]

Ilford MG doesn't change much with toning. The advice about 1:4 and 1:9 is about right. Other papers tone more readily. You'll need good ventilation at these dilutions, though. Another trick to get stronger tones (or at least faster) is to tone at a higher temperature. Hot and strong has the most effect and definitely requires good ventilation!

 

[smieglitz]

My impression (I've never actually run rigorous tests) is that stronger solutions provide an opportunity to split-tone more readily than extended times in weaker concentrations. I usually use KRST 1+6 or 1+3 for such effects with warm-tone papers. I agree that Multigrade IV doesn't really shift in color too much though it does get a little purple. I'd second the suggestion of a gold toner for bluer tones with any paper.

 

[Ian Grant]

You're right, the stronger the faster a print will split, but contrast makes a difference too, as well as the make/type of paper. The last batch of Polywarm tone split very quickly when quite new, it settles with age and slows down.

Ian