Toner question

[RPippin]

Has anyone had any experience making toner from Sodium Sulfide? I can source it but I'm no chemist and could use some advice on how to proceed. The carbon toner from Freestyle is what I've been using, but it's a small quantity (100ml) and expensive to boot. I love the results...

 

[brian steinberger]

I have made sepia toners from Sodium Sulfide, but now use Thriocarbamide as it doesn't smell and provides variable and better colors, I believe. If you are going to mix up a toner from Sodium Sulfide, add 35g to a liter of water. But you'll also need a bleach as well. This will consist of 10g Potassium Ferricyanide and 5g of Potassium Bromide in a liter of water. Bleach the print then wash, then tone in the Sodium Sulfide bath. This is basic sepia toning. Beware that this toner does smell like rotten eggs!

 

[RPippin]

I'm familiar with the bleaching process as well as the smell. For some unknown reason I seem to be immune to the smells of the various chemicals in the darkroom. What I'm trying to create here is an alternative to the Carbon Toner from Freestyle. I've been experimenting with split toning with Carbon toner and Selenium to get real golden browns and when I'm really paying attention to my dilution ratios and timing, I've been bringing back black and white tones within the deep brown and golden tones from the Carbon Toner. I guess I should keep meticulous records, but my sessions in the darkroom seem to be more of the "fly by the seat of your pants" method. I like surprises.

 

[JPD]

The smell comes from the hydrogen sulfide gas. It's toxic, but can also fog unexposed film and paper.

 

[brian steinberger]

I've gotta be honest, I've never really heard of Carbon toners. I just checked it out at Freestyle, looks very intriguing. According to the description, it is an archival toner. I have Tim's The Toning Book, and he doesn't mention anything about them in there. Looks like something with sulfur, maybe something like a polysulfide toner mixed with something else? Dilution affects color, can anyone explain further?

 

[WolfTales]

For golden tones,

I bleach less of the blacks out (ie less time in the bleach) and tone only the mids or highlights.

Then I wash briefly and dunk in selenium to strengthen the deep blacks.

This gives me a tonal range of white to gold to tan to chocolate to grey to black when I actually manage to get it right.

How does carbon look

 

[dancqu]

Carbon Toners

Don't think lamp black or soot. No carbon included.
From Moersch, the toner alone or the kit which includes
the bleach. Essentially a sodium sulfide toner which includes
some selenium selenite. Perhaps Kodak Poly Toner results?

A bunch of info and examples at Freestyle. Dan

 

[Donmck]

I'm not sure if this is a real toner ,but the way I learned to do sepia is with a soak in a solution of hypo,followed by a soak in white vinegar.
The time in the vinegar varies as to the color I"m looking for--- usually 15 min. to 1 hour.I always do this out on the deck due to the smell(toxic?)
It splits tones nicely and I just pull the print and rinse it when It gets where I want it to be.--it's not a quick process.

 

[dancqu]

I'm not sure if this is a real toner ,but the way I learned to do
sepia is with a soak in a solution of hypo,followed by a soak in
white vinegar.

The time in the vinegar varies as to the color I"m looking for---
usually 15 min. to 1 hour.I always do this out on the deck due
to the smell(toxic?)

It splits tones nicely and I just pull the print and rinse it when
It gets where I want it to be.--it's not a quick process.

Very interesting. A suggestion for speeding up toning with
hypo alum toner calls for a one minute soak in a 10%
sulfuric acid bath then into the toner.

The toner you've described is a hypo alum toner minus
the alum. The alum as I understand it is to safe guard
the emulsion at the high temperatures of the hypo
alum toner. Nelson's Gold Toner is essentially
a lower temperature hypo toner; no alum.

Could you supply any more details, temperature,
full strength vinegar, agitation, seasoning, or ....?
I've the vinegar and the sodium thiosulfate.

I think the method may be great for giving prints
an archival finish, a light sulfur coat. Dan

 

[Donmck]

Dan-

I'll tell you what I know ,which is not very much.

Bath A
1/2 cup of hypo crystals in a liter of water

Bath B
white vinegar

I soak a finished print in Bath A for a few minutes---I don't time it but I'd guess 4-5 min.I don't think time matters as long as the print is saturated.Then straight into bath B. Then sit back and wait.Room temp on both baths.I don't do anything for the first 15 min or so--- I agitate once in a while after that--not sure if it helps .This is not unlike lith printing except I'm in a chaise lounge with a cigar and a single malt.

Now that I think about it ,bath B was 50/50 vinegar and water and I went to straight vinegar to see if it would go faster--didn't seem to help.
If My memory is working(lol) there was some talk about "gassing out" not being a chemist I thought they were talking about the smell--.not really sure.

I'm sure if you try one print ,you'll know much more about it than I do,if you don't already.-Don

 

[CBG]

Where did you come across this one? It's interesting and unusual.

Dan-

I'll tell you what I know ,which is not very much.

Bath A
1/2 cup of hypo crystals in a liter of water

Bath B
white vinegar

I soak a finished print in Bath A for a few minutes---I don't time it but I'd guess 4-5 min.I don't think time matters as long as the print is saturated.Then straight into bath B. Then sit back and wait.Room temp on both baths.I don't do anything for the first 15 min or so--- I agitate once in a while after that--not sure if it helps .This is not unlike lith printing except I'm in a chaise lounge with a cigar and a single malt.

Now that I think about it ,bath B was 50/50 vinegar and water and I went to straight vinegar to see if it would go faster--didn't seem to help.
If My memory is working(lol) there was some talk about "gassing out" not being a chemist I thought they were talking about the smell--.not really sure.

I'm sure if you try one print ,you'll know much more about it than I do,if you don't already.-Don