Tomiyama art camera

[europanorama]

www.fotoman.com and www.kt163.com have interesting new module cameras. the latter with interesting backs. most interesting 617-back. both had been at photokina. fotoman will be there this year again. i have seen kt163-under a different name -on ebay.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

Both sites you put up over here is worhtless! One of is some advert for a marriage thing wich I never practiced in my entire life! Don't beleive in it and don't like to bull...! Another one is in some What? I understand zero of it as my origin is not an Asian?


I agree with Cesar I'm to more worry about the quality of my lens! However I like this camera and I'm satisfied so far as I'm going to use it for a totally different thing that this made to use for! And it's gonna be fun! If it's not gonna work out as I thought than throw it down from one bridge somewhere on the concrete or to the asphalt!! Of course with out the lens!

And one more thing if this camera which is a Japanese don't work out for you than I don't think any [racial slur deleted--d.g.] would work either! Just looked their wooden cameras! It's like the thing never had been finished at all and lived the factory un finished! My 102 years old Seneca look and perform much better! If I wanna have panorama than I put on my self made 7x17 and defenetly not spending money on some Chinese hybryd thing! I have heard about those before! Not very positive things!

 

[europanorama]

before argueing i would visit fotofairs and check the products:
Dead Link Removed

Dead Link Removed
dont send email, ask in faq-section.

both chinese

 

[europanorama]

i have also read about some chinese/japanese? producers in photonet. but i would mention the models instead of palavering.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

Hello Europanorama!

Now I would like to ask you something. Why do you think that this Fotoman would work better as this is nothing else than a copy of the Tomiyama made in china! Why do you think it's have better qualities than the Art camera? Just give me some reasons because for me Chinese manufactured things are a new T-shirt with a hole in it or that hard label with your neck which is irritate you all the time and remind you to not to buy any Chinese T-shirt!

So far as I can see the film has the same type of winder as the Tommy and of course if you telling me that I have a problem with film flatness than what do you think you got there?

Now it seems that those cameras not that really well designed at all! For example for each lens you got to by a new lens holder it seems just sucking more money out of you instead buying more film! On the Tommy you have bellows which of course aloud you to use other lenses to and don't need an extra part to shop!

In the viewer on the Tommy you can see a leveling indicator which gives you a total control over your picture also don't need those viewing frames for each lens as on the Tommy is simply drilled in with a small holes on the viewers plate for three different lenses. No plastic here at all either just cast aluminium or steel! The only thing I can see is better on that fotoman is the (I don't even like the name it's to Chinese for me ) Is the ground glass as it's magnetic! But I steel don't understand where you put it after use! Must have a bag or what? In Tommy you have it inserted in the camera back!

And still you got no lens shade; there is the problem with a position of the shutter cable with free hand situation!

The other thing you pressing are that back for the 4x5 is just a piece of junk! I have a friend brought one on Ebay and I can tell you that is not a space age high-tech thing at all! Also it's heavy and does that the wooden field camera got out of balance on the tripod, not stable at all and it’s just to many parts!

Anyway I went out in this forum and registered just because I wanted to get some more info on my camera and exchange experience and here am I and talking about things I’m not even interested in it!

Do you wanna help? Than give me some ideas how to create a good shade for a lens which is a 100 something degree with out vignette my neg and how to attach that to the camera! For the time being this is the only reason I’m here and nothing else!

 

[europanorama]

i am very happy that your are also with tommy.

2. the best lens-shade is a black cardboard on a long swan-neck.

3. i would get that 6x17-multiformat-back from kt163. seagull has a similar one. i dont know the difference. i only remember the kt163-one(It has a different name) has more options.
unfortuntately i will probably not check the fotoman at photokina. i have other plans. but you are right, there are a lot of chunck around. i once had a technar-like self-made camera here from a german friend with the same mamyia-press-mount that tommy 612 has. i have never seen before such a razorsharp MF lens like that old technikon100mm(linhof-lens). but the body had light-leaks....

 

[uraniumnitrate]

Yes I thought of cardboard but the very unprofessional look stopped me! I would like to have something which is look pro! I have tried lens hood from Mamiya press the one they use on the 50 mm lens I even brought a Hasselblad and the Mamiya but they are a square like and don’t work: Now I’m into learn how to fold bellows because probably this is the answer! Do something which is wider than the 120 degree and just as tall as the camera format! Than probably parts from those other lens shade would work but I got to fabricate a new front and the back out of aluminum! So let’s see how it works! The lens shade is a must however some photographers don’t understand the meaning behind it! Toy increase the contrast in your neg!

Now any of you who reading this could help me with address to sites there I can learn how to design a bellows are welcome! The more different sites I got the better it is as there isn’t anything we call perfect description but more reading gives more perfection!

Finally I only have German lenses to all my cameras and I own a couple of those! some Dagors some Apo Red Dot’s, Voigtlander heliar and Universal, Schneiders of course and One big son of the bitch 1000mm Apo Ronny! Still I would like to get one 300 mm Lanthar but not for those Ebay prices!

 

[George]

You're absolutely right that a lens shade is a must. And the best way to get it, is to make your own! If you are interested I could tell you the exact dimension of the lens shade exactly constructed for your film format and the lens in use. You would then need to make it yourself as I only make them for myself now. The use of these lens shades gives results going far beyond your expectations (99.9% of photographers are dudes when it comes to the knowledge of correct lens shades).

 

[trebor569]

Wide angle lense hoods

I have been wondering what to do about a lense hood on the 6x24 do you think the wide angle lense hood from Lee's would work
http://www.leefilters.com/CPTS4.asp?PageID=141

 

[George]

It would but with MUCH less efficiency as it is not made for your format. I could give you dimensions that are the best suitable for your camera/lens combination.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

the final sollution!

Hello Cesar!

I think I dissolve the problem! From now on this is a hand held camera and you operate the shutter with your thumb easy and trouble free! I have used a shoe from an old light for video and a piece of aluminium! I also got a cable release from an unknown manufacturer very thick and high recision probobly German made!. Tried and you can hold the camera stable as rock! Loaded with 400 ASA/ISO film and its ready for the job! I’m gonna try it on the street in next week! Put up some pics lather from the results! I’m very close to the final solution on the lens shade! You hear from me when it’s ready!

 

[fotoman]

A reply from one of the "Ching Chong" manufacturers...

your racial slur being set aside, our Fotoman cameras are manufactured to tolerances comperable to those of Linhof, Alpa and others, as we utilize the latest machine tools from Germany, the USA and Japan.

Our cameras are copies of no one else... they are unique in many ways. Being manufactured in China simply lowers the selling price... opening up the joys of panoramic shooting to many who simply can't afford a Gilde or Linhof.

In regards to your specific needs, questions and comments...

Our Viewfinder has an internal bubble level, easily viewable while shooting. However for critical work we also include a precise dual axis bubble level as well.

All of our cameras accept a shutter release cable that mounts in either handle, threading securely in place... ideal for hand held shooting. We even supply the cable with the camera. The cable can of course also be used unattached.

We challenge any maker to demonstrate flatter film capability than that to be had on our panoramic cameras. We studied all of our competitors executions before designing our film transport system... and we got it right.

Using Cones (rather than a bellows) is a design choice. Bellows have the advantage of being suitable to a range of focal lengths. If movements are designed in, that is a benefit as well... but the Art Pan doesn't. While a Cone system does require a unique cone for each focal length, the benefits include...

Precise helical focusing.
Usage of a far wider range of lenses... currently 23 for our 624 camera... and still counting.
Rock solid stablity... they shrug off wind with a chuckle.
Easy Set-Up... there is none.

Lastly, we will soon (90 days) offer a Shift Adapter with +/- 25mm of vertical movement, and an auxiliary rangefinder for precise distance guaging.

In the end, we simply want people to be shooting pano's. We love to, and encourage every photographer to try their hand at it.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

Okay!

I’m not a racist and never will be one and I haven’t got any problem with the Chinese people but the products they letting out to the market! I’m just a little bit tired of the towels says “Made in China and 100% cotton” than the thing just won’t dry the moisture off my body! You right it’s cheap to produce it and it’s cheap to buy it but than I got to by a new one which works because this one won’t do the job! And of course it cost me more in the long run!
There are some political reasons too but it does not belong in this site!

You wrote
“Our cameras are copies of no one else... they are unique in many ways”
Be careful with statements of this kind because the format is already a copy of others as you wasn’t the first!

You also wrote

“We studied all of our competitor’s executions before designing our film transport system... and we got it right.”

You maybe right here but no way of telling it as long as I haven’t try one of yours! I know that I haven’t got problem with mine and than yours is not better!

No you haven’t copy anything you just use the best of all others you have studied!
Now I really don’t wanna go into this discussions but the point is this! You missed one of the main goal with the bellows which Tomiyama have understand very well and constructed a camera with this reason in mind!

The fast cone is sharpness in one point if I understand it right a 120 mm on the 120 mm lens at infinity! For example if you say I use the f stop for increase the dept of field it’s okay but at the same time you loose much value of it as the dept of the field works as I described on page two!! If you go back to that page there you might understand what I mean!

Now of course if you think using the smallest aperture solve the problem you are wrong. It won’t as all lenses have the best working aria which is in modern large format lenses are on f22. That means the lens giving its absolute best performance on just that or very close f stops! All other f stop use is resulting poorer image quality!

And if I understand right than I need to have a bag with lots of gadgets to get the same job done which I do with the single Tomiyama camera and you still haven’t got any solution when it comes to lens shade!

As I have explained before I’m only registered to get info of my camera of people who owns one and nothing else.

 

[George]

Okay!


You wrote
“Our cameras are copies of no one else... they are unique in many ways”
Be careful with statements of this kind because the format is already a copy of others as you wasn’t the first!

Lol. You clearly show you don't know what you're talking about. Do you think that manufactures of 617 or whatever format cameras copy each other because they're not the first to make cameras in those formats? Lol. All car manufactures copy the first car? Lol. This could fill a whole sea with stupidity alone. lol

 

[fotoman]

Dearest Uraniumnitrate,

you wrote....

"The fast cone is sharpness in one point if I understand it right a 120 mm on the 120 mm lens at infinity! For example if you say I use the f stop for increase the dept of field it’s okay but at the same time you loose much value of it as the dept of the field works as I described on page two!! If you go back to that page there you might understand what I mean!

Now of course if you think using the smallest aperture solve the problem you are wrong. It won’t as all lenses have the best working aria which is in modern large format lenses are on f22. That means the lens giving its absolute best performance on just that or very close f stops! All other f stop use is resulting poorer image quality!"

Well... frankly, I don't know what you mean... perhaps there is a communication problem. Going back through this thread, there IS a reference to the 1/3 - 2/3 general rule for DOF (which isn't imperically true BTW), however the use of a calibrated DOF scale on a precision Helical Focus Mount in no way forces one to choose ANY specific aperture. What it does, is provide one with precise information from which an evaluative decision can be made.

In an earlier posting, you also wrote...

"Do you wanna help? Than give me some ideas how to create a good shade for a lens which is a 100 something degree with out vignette my neg and how to attach that to the camera! For the time being this is the only reason I’m here and nothing else!"

So Be It... I would suggest you contact the following company, who can build you a bellows lens shade to any dimension you provide them with...

Camera Bellows (http://www.camerabellows.com) Tony Eaton is the Works Director, and a very knowledgable fellow (teaton@camerabellows.com). I'm sure he can resolve this singular issue.

[Inappropriate link deleted--d.g.]

 

[uraniumnitrate]

I think you should begin to explain this

"there IS a reference to the 1/3 - 2/3 general rule for DOF (which isn't imperically true BTW),"

And thanks for the tip I might just ask tham for help if my ideal doesn't work!

And last, I wasn't the one started this agly discussion I was only asking if somebody have any info about my camera as this one is not a camera you find in every shop! Than people begin to talk about something else! Otherwise I'm not that intrested being on the net and talk! It's only stealing time from other more important things.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

Lol. All car manufactures copy the first car? Lol. This could fill a whole sea with stupidity alone. lol

This is not stupidity it's just a different view of things! Of course the first manufacturer of automobile is the origine of the car and it's writen so in our history and the rest is a copy a variation of the same idea!

 

[Aggie]

Fotoman I apologize for the way you have been treated in this thread. No one should use racial slurs. [response to deleted link deleted--d.g.]

I look forward to trying out a fotoman camera. I also know that it was engineered from the ground up. It may be based on other designs, but it was designed as a new product from start to finish. Archetecture is based on similar designs, but they all vary and have their own starting point that is different. I.M. Pei is different from Frank Lloyd Wright, et al. The same for the fotoman.

I applaud fotoman for bringing out a new camera in this digital age we see today. More power to him and his company.

 

[trebor569]

Fotoman Cameras

I would just like to state for the record. I own and use a Fotoman camera and find it to be of excellent quality and extreamly good value for money. Also I think that they are one of the most enovative camera manufacturers and as such I can hartly recomend them.

Lest any should think otherwise, the only connection between myself and this company is that of a satified customer.

 

[uraniumnitrate]

People telling me that I have a problem with communication. I believe this thread is called for Tomiyama art camera and turned out to be a commercial forum for other brands.
I’m very glad for all of you who own a wide angle camera but I’m really not interested at all! All I wanted to get some help with my own camera (it's still a Tomiyama) but it seems that I have to dissolve all my problems by myself! So therefore I close this thread down and you can continue to discuss your brand of cameras with each other if you whish but with out me.
It seems that there is only a few of this fantastic cameras out there anyway which makes me feel very special! Tomiyama for ever!

 

[uraniumnitrate]

quality never goes out of style

Quality doesn’t have to be advertised with stupid comments! It sell it’s self! It’s a Tomiyama!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=170048516435&rd=1&rd=1