to be a photographer:

[Ed Sukach]

Mr. Smith makes some very interesting points.

I love photography. I, personally, am not sure that my "strength of obsession" lessens or for that matter, increases that affection for, or committment to, the Art.

Am I a "Photographer"? (note capitalization)

Well, I take photographs. I love to take photographs.

 

[joeyk49]

Okay, is the horse dead yet?

Nope, it think I saw some agonal breathing. Let's give him another whack!

So...if I'm a Photographer working in a Photo Studio and spend the requisite amount of time (whatever that is) reading and working my craft, but make horrible photographs, I'm still a Photographer.

But, if I'm a Carpet Installer subcontracting to Home Depot, that spends a few hours each weekend taking amazing photographs, I'm not a Photographer??? I know, the answer is "No. You're a Carpet installer who takes amazing photographs."

Michael: I'm with you on this one (believe it or not). I'm just not happy with the hard fast rule that This is what I do, so this is what I am. I think that the label confirms some degree of validity or competancy, which I have repeatedly found to be inappropriately placed (not here, of course). I think that the proof is in the pudding. My work product determines whether or not I should be labeled as a Photographer, Golfer, Diesel Truck Mechanic or Dentist. I dare say that I'm none of these, but would one day like to be thought of as a Photographer...

It may never come to pass, but the journey will sure be a fun one.

 

[sparx]

Just to throw a twist into the discussion I met a guy at a Christmas Party who was taken photos of all the couples as they came in. One Digi camera, laptop and inkjet printer later he was flogging the 'portraits' to anyone stupid enough to shell out for it.
I naturally got talking to the guy and asked how he got into photography.
'Oh no mate, i'm not a photographer, doesn't interest me at all. I do this 'cause it's easy money.'

So, a man who is paid to take pictures, not a photographer?

 

[anyte]

I don't think titles are restricted to careers. There are some professional titles that you cannot use without a "license" due to legal restrictions. You cannot be a doctor or a lawyer without the appropriate license. I don't think you can practise medicine out of your home. I believe you can actually be an auto mechanic without taking it up as a profession. I don't think being a chef is about working in a restaurant, I think it's more about the training and the methods used to prepare foods. Not everyone that thinks they are a chef are, but there are clowns that have law degrees that I wouldn't consider lawyers as well.

Were are the well known artists and poets employed as such or have we given them the titles because their work demonstrates that they were indeed artists and poets?

I don't call myself a photographer. I don't even refer to myself as a "student" of photography, but I have seen a number of hobbyists that know the methods and produce great photos. I also know of people that are "employed" as photographers and their work is absolute crap IMO. Why do people pay them? Perhaps they just don't know better. We live in a society in which we need written instructions telling us not to use a hairdryer while in the bathtub.

 

[David Brown]

Wow.

I’m pretty depressed. Between this thread and the “holy crap” thread, I have learned this morning that I can’t be either a photographer or an artist!!

Let’s see: I earn my living as an auditor. I have credentials (certification) in this field, and my business cards say “Senior Auditor”. Yet, when I leave the office (and often while I’m still there if I’m honest) I cease thinking about auditing. It IS NOT my passion, yet there is no dispute about my being an auditor.

(I’m good at it, too.)

I started out professional life as a musician. (A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away …) I have credentials in this field also, made money at it, taught it, etc. But, the stress of making a living sucked the joy out of the passion for the art, so I know longer do it “professionally”. However, my skills are still there, and I still – inarguably – consider myself a “musician”. Perhaps, though, not a “professional musician”.

Does it bother (“real”) musicians that any kid with a guitar and 1000s of watts of amplification can make money at music and call themselves a musician? I suppose on a certain level, yes. However, not so much, since we all know crap when we hear it!

OK, so I’m not a photographer.

I’m an amateur who takes pictures.

Also owns a lot of gear (and a piano … :rolleyes: ) reads, keeps up with the changes, knows and cares about the history, etc.

No offense to anyone, of course.

 

[Bob Carnie]

ryan
there is a good book out there by Bill Jay (one of the people at lenswork) it is called On Being a Photographer it is a very easy read . Bill interviews a Magnum Photographer and discusses ways on being a photographer. I would recommend this book to you.

 

[Chris Fraser]

I think George Eastman summed it up...

"What we do during our working hours determines what we have; what we do in our leisure hours determines what we are." - George Eastman

Now I'm not saying that if you are a Professional Photographer but don't do photography after working hours that you not a photographer. I am also sure that Mr. Eastman had a deeper meaning to this statement that I am using it for here.... But this statement did resolve the issue of "Am I a Photographer" for me, some time ago.

More on Mr. Eastman here - http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/kodakHistory/eastmanTheMan.shtml

 

[blansky]

I remember back a few years ago if you were a photographer it meant you were a professional. If it was your hobby, you were a "camera bug" or "shutterbug"

I'm not sure I'd want that title either.

Michael

 

[haris]

I am NOT photographer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I often have situations in which I have to explain people that I am not photographer, in a sense that I can not make photographs of them to be published somewhere. Typical situation is when some girl, wannabe model, have hope that if I make photographs of her, those photographs will be published and she will have some sort of advertizing. Thing which complicate situation more is that I work in newspapers, but I work as person who make preparations of my newspapers for printin (DTP). So, combination of having press pass and having camera in hands often get me in situation when I must explain that I am not (working employed professional) photographer, just someone who love photography. Or, I am photographer? Am I, or am I not, that is the...

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

How about a recursive definition of being a photographer: a photgrapher is someone who takes pictures in order to take more pictures....

 

[MattCarey]

I don't think titles are restricted to careers. There are some professional titles that you cannot use without a "license" due to legal restrictions. You cannot be a doctor or a lawyer without the appropriate license. I don't think you can practise medicine out of your home.

Pedantic response to follow--

A person named Smith who has earned an M.D. is Dr. Smith (as is a person named Smith with a Ph.D., D.Sc. etc). A person who has passed the boards has the right to practice medicine.

My uncle was a dentist. He got annoyed at the opinion some people had--

uncle: I am Dr. Anderson

person: Oh, but you are a Dentist, I thought you meant you were a medical doctor.

uncle (under breath): Dentistry is a form of medicine.


Matt

I don't want the title "photographer". I want more time to make photographs.

 

[removed account4]

SNIP

I wonder what people here consider the prerequisates to calling yourself a photographer?

if you enjoy making photographs you are a photographer.

hobbiest, amateur, shutterbug, camera operator, photographer ... it is all the same thing. if you do it for a living, sometimes it becomes more of a job that you HAVE to do, and you loose the spark ( read: enjoyment ) that make you want to pick up a camera in it in the first place.

 

[blansky]

SNIP



if you enjoy making photographs you are a photographer.

hobbiest, amateur, shutterbug, camera operator, photographer ... it is all the same thing. if you do it for a living, sometimes it becomes more of a job that you HAVE to do, and you loose the spark ( read: enjoyment ) that make you want to pick up a camera in it in the first place.

I've heard this statement here a number of times before about not enjoying photography because it is your profession and therefore forced to do it.

I will say that after all these years I enjoy photography as much or more than when I started in "76. It never bores me, or tires me probably because the next one could be the "one" . On top of that there is still so much more to learn. People around my age start to think of retiring in a few years. I couldn't imagine it.

Just at comment.

Michael

 

[Lee Shively]

Conversely, one of the happiest days of my life was the day I quit my day job as a photographer. Photography-wise, I remain a happy man to this day.

 

[bobfowler]

Pedantic response to follow--

A person named Smith who has earned an M.D. is Dr. Smith (as is a person named Smith with a Ph.D., D.Sc. etc). A person who has passed the boards has the right to practice medicine.

My uncle was a dentist. He got annoyed at the opinion some people had--

uncle: I am Dr. Anderson

person: Oh, but you are a Dentist, I thought you meant you were a medical doctor.

uncle (under breath): Dentistry is a form of medicine.


Matt

Waaaay too funny! Unless you happen to be the one making the comment while sitting in the chair of said dentist...

 

[removed account4]

I've heard this statement here a number of times before about not enjoying photography because it is your profession and therefore forced to do it.

I will say that after all these years I enjoy photography as much or more than when I started in "76. It never bores me, or tires me probably because the next one could be the "one" . On top of that there is still so much more to learn. People around my age start to think of retiring in a few years. I couldn't imagine it.

Just at comment.

Michael

i think some folks might call it "burn out" ...

 

[anyte]

Pedantic response to follow--

A person named Smith who has earned an M.D. is Dr. Smith (as is a person named Smith with a Ph.D., D.Sc. etc). A person who has passed the boards has the right to practice medicine.

My uncle was a dentist. He got annoyed at the opinion some people had--

uncle: I am Dr. Anderson

person: Oh, but you are a Dentist, I thought you meant you were a medical doctor.

uncle (under breath): Dentistry is a form of medicine.


Matt

I don't want the title "photographer". I want more time to make photographs.

Dentists use drills - I think that might make them contruction workers. Don't tell your uncle I said that . . .

 

[MattCarey]

Dentists use drills - I think that might make them contruction workers. Don't tell your uncle I said that . . .

Actually, he was an amateur dentist...

Matt

 

[akar]

As I thought about this topic more, I couldn't get past the obvious -- the terms "amateur photographer" and "profressional photographer" are widely known and used, rightly or wrongly, suggesting that one can be a photographer even if they don't make their living doing it. Then I went to my Heritage Dictionary. A photographer was someone who takes photographs, especially as a profession. A professional was not only someone who was paid or made a living doing something, but also someone with great skill or experience in a field or activity. An amateur however, was defined as either an unskilled person, or as someone who did something without getting paid for it. [although the root of the word is from the Latin amare, to love, this did not actually appear as a definition].

So what does that tell me? I guess if you really wanted to, if you take a picture with a camera, you could, by definition, call yourself a photographer. You will probably offend some people who believe you should have some degree of skill, or passion, or experience, etc., but the American Heritate Dictionary would back you up, at least nominally. Most of use would agree that really you should have some degree of skill, or passion, etc. before calling yourself a photographer, out of respect for the photographers who have earned our admiration through hard work and vision. What exactly it is that allows one to call oneself a photographer, beyond dictionary definitions, makes for a good discussion, as we've seen here.

By the way, a dentist was defined simply as "a person whose profession is dentristy". Nice and simple, that one.

 

[anyte]

Actually, he was an amateur dentist...

Matt

Does that mean he played a dentist on TV?

 

[FrankB]

Actually, he was an amateur dentist...

Um, did anyone else just get a mental image of Steve Martin in Little Shop of Horrors?! Just me then...

As far as I see it (which isn't very far!) I think if anyone earns their daily crust making pictures (with whatever degree of skill) they are entitled to call themselves a photographer. (Skill is rarely a factor in professional labels. Look around your workplace for proof!)

I also think that any who invests great passion and commitment in photography has earned the right to that label, should they so choose. (There may be a minimum skill level required in this, but I'm not going to be the one to set the bar!)

Do I call myself a photographer? No. I'm like Ed (only not quite so proficient!); I'm someone who takes pictures.

 

[joeyk49]

I think, by all accounts, that the horse is truly dead...

This was a very interesting/enjoyable discussion.

I would love to be a fly on the wall of an APUG coctail party...but then half would be trying to photograph me (in black and white, of course) and the other half would be trying to whack at me with a newspaper...

 

[Ed Sukach]

I have noticed common ground among "Highly Respected" (??? - cringe, cringe...) photographers: First, they do not LIKE cocktail parties; and second, they rarely, if ever, talk about photography at these functions.

 

[bjorke]

Always building fences!!! That's what this thread is about. "Us" versus "them" and where is the fence that includes just "us"?

Why does this pattern repeat so often? *sigh*

(Might I suggest to all Ludwig Wittgenstein's 1953 Philosophical Investigations and his concept of using "family resemblances" rather than strictly-bound categories and labels?)

One can argue endlessly about the exact meaning of "photographer" but like any word is describes and masks simultaneously (this effect is called the paradox of mediacy, for the pomo/semiotics crowd). If simple words were adequate to describe everything we would have no need for media mechanisms like music, painting, or photography.

 

[blansky]

If simple words were adequate to describe everything we would have no need for media mechanisms like music, painting, or photography.

True, but since words are one of our primary form of communication then the dilution and misrepresentation of those words attacks the veracity of any statement made.

If we are unable to agree on meaning, then they become meaningless.

Walls are often a necessary element of life. Bjork, to attain the degrees and stature that you have attained, I'm quite sure you had to climb a number of walls.

If we are something, (whatever that something is) just because we say we are, it negates discipline, struggle and the character building that goes with it and effectively makes accomplishment meaningless.

But hey, I'm an noted author, historian and self made millionaire and in my spare time I'm a brain surgeon. So I don't care what you call yourself.

Michael