Tmax Film

[cpubrp]

I'm trying to find out if Tmax films are still manufactured by Kodak in Rochester. I understand Kodak Alaris sold a good portion of the color paper and chemistry business to a Chinese firm, but I'm not sure this included Kodak's film or B/W chemistry divisions. I do have a number of rolls of Tmax 100 in my freezer, that are marked "Made in USA", however, I purchased them over a year ago.

 

[koraks]

AFAIK yes, all tmax film is still manufactured in-house at the Rochester facilities.

 

[MattKing]

All Kodak branded film is manufactured by Eastman Kodak in Rochester, NY, USA.
The marketing and distribution rights for the still films are still owned by Kodak Alaris.
The marketing and distribution rights for the motion picture films are owned by Eastman Kodak.
Any Kodak branded still film you buy goes from the manufacturer (Eastman Kodak), through the main distributor (Kodak Alaris), through a myriad of more local distributors (sometimes more than one) to the retailer and then to you.
Any Kodak branded motion picture film you buy goes from the manufacturer (Eastman Kodak), through the main distributor (Eastman Kodak again), and either directly to the end user, or through a myriad of more local distributors (sometimes more than one) to the retailer and then to you.
Kodak Alaris recently divested the Kodak colour photo paper, lab related equipment and photo chemical business they had been operating for years, after it, along with the still film marketing and distribution business, came to them as part of the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy.

 

[cpubrp]

Thank you all for your input. I wasn't sure about the B/W films. Kodak in the past has had a habit of changing things in in the blink of an eye. They have been disappointing in the past with discontinuing products (i.e., Panatomic X, Plus-X, Microdol X, B/W Paper). It's frustrating when, after much testing of trial & error you think you have a method down producing results that accomplishes your vision using certain products and then they're no more.

Again thank you all for the information!

 

[Cholentpot]

Thank you all for your input. I wasn't sure about the B/W films. Kodak in the past has had a habit of changing things in in the blink of an eye. They have been disappointing in the past with discontinuing products (i.e., Panatomic X, Plus-X, Microdol X, B/W Paper). It's frustrating when, after much testing of trial & error you think you have a method down producing results that accomplishes your vision using certain products and then they're no more.

Again thank you all for the information!

I understand the disappointment, I for one am just glad they're still around.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

All Kodak branded film is manufactured by Eastman Kodak in Rochester, NY, USA.
The marketing and distribution rights for the still films are still owned by Kodak Alaris.
The marketing and distribution rights for the motion picture films are owned by Eastman Kodak.
Any Kodak branded still film you buy goes from the manufacturer (Eastman Kodak), through the main distributor (Kodak Alaris), through a myriad of more local distributors (sometimes more than one) to the retailer and then to you.
Any Kodak branded motion picture film you buy goes from the manufacturer (Eastman Kodak), through the main distributor (Eastman Kodak again), and either directly to the end user, or through a myriad of more local distributors (sometimes more than one) to the retailer and then to you.
Kodak Alaris recently divested the Kodak colour photo paper, lab related equipment and photo chemical business they had been operating for years, after it, along with the still film marketing and distribution business, came to them as part of the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy.

That's a good breakdown Matt. Thanks. I knew that Eastman Kodak made a deal with Hollywood to guarantee the purchase of a certain amount of Vision 3 movie film for Hollywood. Hollywood was interested as well as they wanted to make sure there would be continued access to the film. Many producers, directors, and filmographies hate digital. So it was a deal both sides wanted.
https://www.wxxinews.org/post/kodak-signs-deals-continue-supply-motion-picture-film

Still film sales have doubled recently for Kodak. That's good news. I don't know the breakout though of which films are doing the best.

 

[MattKing]

That motion picture film includes a lot more than the Vision 3 films:
https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...-Motion-Picture-Products-Price-Catalog-US.pdf
Black and White and E6 as well.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

That motion picture film includes a lot more than the Vision 3 films:
https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...-Motion-Picture-Products-Price-Catalog-US.pdf
Black and White and E6 as well.

I thought that Hollywood was mainly interested in the Vision 3 group. But you could be right. I don't know all the details of the Hollywood deal.

 

[MattKing]

I thought that Hollywood was mainly interested in the Vision 3 group. But you could be right. I don't know all the details of the Hollywood deal.

Hollywood uses Vision 3.
But motion picture film is used in a lot more places than just Hollywood.

 

[cpubrp]

I understand the disappointment, I for one am just glad they're still around.

I agree, in the end I'm also glad to see the familiar "yellow box" still with us.

 

[Dave Krueger]

I'm trying to find out if Tmax films are still manufactured by Kodak in Rochester. I understand Kodak Alaris sold a good portion of the color paper and chemistry business to a Chinese firm, but I'm not sure this included Kodak's film or B/W chemistry divisions. I do have a number of rolls of Tmax 100 in my freezer, that are marked "Made in USA", however, I purchased them over a year ago.

I have no reason to doubt that Kodak (US) is still making the film, but I cannot say the same about whether they are still spooling and packaging individual film products. I bought 10 rolls of 35mm TMax 400 in Rome in October 2019, every one of which had damage within an inch of the end of the film attached to the spool. I took the damage to be tooling marks, but that's a guess. I have never seen this before in Tmax rolls purchased in the US. The film was shot with a Nikon F6 over a period of 3 weeks and every two rolls I alternated between Tmax and HP5+. Only the Tmax had the marks, usually falling within the last frame.

I contacted Kodak Alaris and never heard back. I don't know the source of the damage, but I know it wasn't from me. My personal guess is that Kodak (US) is selling bulk film to Kodak Alaris which is contracting out the spooling to a third party. I have not shot any factory spooled 35mm Tmax 400 since then and I have never seen anyone reporting this same issue. I tend to buy and use 100ft rolls of 35mm and have never seen this issue on self-spooled rolls.

I still use Kodak still film, but I know nothing lasts forever.

 

[mshchem]

So if Sino Promise wanted to resurrect Microdol-X would Eastman Kodak have any say in the matter?

 

[MattKing]

So if Sino Promise wanted to resurrect Microdol-X would Eastman Kodak have any say in the matter?

No.

 

[MattKing]

My personal guess is that Kodak (US) is selling bulk film to Kodak Alaris which is contracting out the spooling to a third party.

The confectioning of all Kodak still film is done by Eastman Kodak in Rochester. That is where much of the current backlog arises, because of the capacity reductions that happened around the time of the bankruptcy.

 

[mshchem]

No.

Things get weirder every day. I don't really need Microdol-X. I use Bromophen for prints, I still use Kodak Se toner, rapid fix, and HCA. Fortunately there are plenty of substitutes, XTOL, I have enough to last me for a while. I just ordered 3 batches of Kodak Flexicolor developer replenisher, it's been made by Sino Promise for years.

If I could go back to 1965, when my Dad and I were developing Verichrome 126, in Dad's 1941 Elkay bakelite tank, and said " Dad, you know China is going to make Dektol" he wouldn't have believed it.

 

[MattKing]

Things get weirder every day. I don't really need Microdol-X. I use Bromophen for prints, I still use Kodak Se toner, rapid fix, and HCA. Fortunately there are plenty of substitutes, XTOL, I have enough to last me for a while. I just ordered 3 batches of Kodak Flexicolor developer replenisher, it's been made by Sino Promise for years.

If I could go back to 1965, when my Dad and I were developing Verichrome 126, in Dad's 1941 Elkay bakelite tank, and said " Dad, you know China is going to make Dektol" he wouldn't have believed it.

In 1965, Kodak was already manufacturing product in a number of locations throughout the world, and that trend was expanding.
I'm not sure when it reached its maximum, but it continued to expand for a long time.
England, France, Canada, India, Brazil and a whole bunch more.
And China too.
And then it contracted precipitously.
The manufacturing capacity for Flexicolour in China was just sold to Sino Promise - they didn't own it before.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

All Kodak branded film is manufactured by Eastman Kodak in Rochester, NY, USA.
The marketing and distribution rights for the still films are still owned by Kodak Alaris.
The marketing and distribution rights for the motion picture films are owned by Eastman Kodak.
Any Kodak branded still film you buy goes from the manufacturer (Eastman Kodak), through the main distributor (Kodak Alaris), through a myriad of more local distributors (sometimes more than one) to the retailer and then to you.
Any Kodak branded motion picture film you buy goes from the manufacturer (Eastman Kodak), through the main distributor (Eastman Kodak again), and either directly to the end user, or through a myriad of more local distributors (sometimes more than one) to the retailer and then to you.
Kodak Alaris recently divested the Kodak colour photo paper, lab related equipment and photo chemical business they had been operating for years, after it, along with the still film marketing and distribution business, came to them as part of the Eastman Kodak bankruptcy.

All of this is exactly why I've been considering switching to Ilford. Kodak has become that spouse that you got to know and then realized they have some heavy baggage - too much baggage... for me anyway.

 

[MattKing]

And Ilford is actually just a brand name owned by Harman Technology Ltd., who themselves are owned by an investment fund.
None of the Ilford branded chemicals are actually manufactured by them.
Despite my historical loyalty for Kodak, I'm happy to recommend Ilford as well.
I have good hopes for ADOX as well, but they are very small.
I say this just to point out that you will find it frustrating if you try to base your purchasing decisions on a vision of an industry that has all of their products made by the entities whose names are on the package.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

And Ilford is actually just a brand name owned by Harman Technology Ltd., who themselves are owned by an investment fund.
None of the Ilford branded chemicals are actually manufactured by them.
Despite my historical loyalty for Kodak, I'm happy to recommend Ilford as well.
I have good hopes for ADOX as well, but they are very small.
I say this just to point out that you will find it frustrating if you try to base your purchasing decisions on a vision of an industry that has all of their products made by the entities whose names are on the package.

Polaroid, Honeywell, and many others sell their names for royalty payments from other manufacturers who actually make the product. Trade name familiarity sells. Trump uses it all the time similarly. Many of the buildings with his name on it are built and owned by others. He gets royalties. However, I doubt if we'll ever see Trump Plus ASA 100 film.

 

[MattKing]

Back in the day, a lot of Kodak product wasn't made by Eastman Kodak, it was made and sold by one of the international subsidiaries of Eastman Kodak. The difference, of course, being that Eastman Kodak owned those subsidiaries, and allowed them to have Kodak in their name.
There is a lot more of a connection between the various versions of the film photography related Kodaks then there is between the pure brand licensors - Bell and Howell being the example I think of. Not least because their products are designed to work with each other and, maybe more importantly, the common roots of so many of the employees.

 

[wyofilm]

There is a difference in outsourcing the manufacturing of product and licensing your brand. In particular, that latter case is tricky if the main company isn't careful about whom they license too. Sadly, Kodak sold its name to vast collection of junky products (visit Kodak.com for examples).

The present day three headed Kodak is a problem, too. On other forums (Matt keeps us straight here) you regularly read things like "if Kodak can't even make a descent developer anymore how can I trust their film?" Of course Eastman Kodak has no role in making 'Kodak' chemicals, but can none the less see they feel the negative consequences through association of 'Kodak' branding.

Polaroid also went through a downward spiral of pimping its name out until there was nothing left except a name, which has now been magically reborn in a small way.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

No, I didn't sell my name out to Klein Tools. But I wish I did.

 

[Arcadia4]

In a related topic, lomo colour neg films ;
The 35mm is labelled made in usa and comes complete with kodak cannisters.
The 120 is the same emulsion, but labelled made in china which is more than just packaging. This seems to indicate that the 120 is converted and packaged in china (could be coated, given Kodak VR films were coated there but seems less likely)
Sino promise, which essentially seems to be made up of the remnants of the Kodak china business, fuda etc given their locations seems to be the most likely candidate,( lucky or shanghai less likely)
Wonder if anyone has any intel?

 

[MattKing]

Eastman Kodak closed their manufacturing sites in China in 2005, so any remnants of Kodak influence are just that, remnants.

 

[Arcadia4]

Yes but it seems some of those facilities are now owned by sino promise given their capabilities and correlation between the former Kodak china investments and sp locations. I guess if they are, they are doing the converting working for lomo direct unless subcontracted by ek.