Tiny spots on negatives (white in negative, black in positive)

[grainyvision]

So I've went out on a larp and bought a cheap 1000ft can of Kodak 2466 film, a high contrast, slow speed (~1 ISO) ortho cine film. The expiration printing on the can is 1985. It has no remjet or anything like that, maybe not even a real antihalation layer. Anyway I shot a test roll and developed it in a custom developer and wondering if the film or developer might be the blame here. The spots are white in the negative and most obvious in heavily exposed areas, as when inverted it looks like black spots in highlights. The spots are very tiny, but I think may cause problems when enlarging. The density of the negatives are extremely brown, hinting that the development was mostly on the surface of grains. When I processed a test strip in Ansco 130 to evaluate for fog and safelight sensitivity, the density was a good black and lesser exposed parts were quite olive green. I didn't keep that strip though and so no idea if the white spots appeared there too. The exact formula used:

* "EXG1" 1+1, 69F, 6m development
* 5ml Triethanolamine 99% (formulary)
* Glycin, 0.5g (dissolved in the TEA)
* 3g potassium carbonate
* to 500ml of water

After development was rinsed in water several times and put into TF-4 fixer, then more rinsing and a final wash of distilled water and photo-flo

Other than the peppering the negatives look quite nice, good tonality without too much contrast, fairly short scale that'd be ideal for printing, and very fine grain without losing any sharpness.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

So I've went out on a larp and bought a cheap 1000ft can of Kodak 2466 film, a high contrast, slow speed (~1 ISO) ortho cine film. The expiration printing on the can is 1985. It has no remjet or anything like that, maybe not even a real antihalation layer. Anyway I shot a test roll and developed it in a custom developer and wondering if the film or developer might be the blame here. The spots are white in the negative and most obvious in heavily exposed areas, as when inverted it looks like black spots in highlights. The spots are very tiny, but I think may cause problems when enlarging. The density of the negatives are extremely brown, hinting that the development was mostly on the surface of grains. When I processed a test strip in Ansco 130 to evaluate for fog and safelight sensitivity, the density was a good black and lesser exposed parts were quite olive green. I didn't keep that strip though and so no idea if the white spots appeared there too. The exact formula used:

* "EXG1" 1+1, 69F, 6m development
* 5ml Triethanolamine 99% (formulary)
* Glycin, 0.5g (dissolved in the TEA)
* 3g potassium carbonate
* to 500ml of water

After development was rinsed in water several times and put into TF-4 fixer, then more rinsing and a final wash of distilled water and photo-flo

Other than the peppering the negatives look quite nice, good tonality without too much contrast, fairly short scale that'd be ideal for printing, and very fine grain without losing any sharpness.

I suspect dust in the can.

 

[grainyvision]

Is there anything that can really be done in that case? The film didn't feel dusty when loading some of it onto a 100ft spool for loading, however the piece of tape that kept the film together definitely was covered with dust. The film is also still in a plastic pouch, though not closed

 

[MattKing]

Try farther into the roll.
After all, if you had been sitting alone in a film can for more than a quarter century, you too might not be at your best .

 

[grainyvision]

Try farther into the roll.
After all, if you had been sitting alone in a film can for more than a quarter century, you too might not be at your best .

I've already unreeled maybe 50ft or so, it's still quite dusty as far in as I've went. Oddly it also has a few spots that look like watermarks and some sections of film are straight up bent. This was bought supposedly sealed/never opened and as new old stock. Seems unlikely that this description was accurate though. This film also seems to have no or at least minimal antihalation layer. If it has one, then it doesn't wash off with water and is a very pale orange. I can't find any info on the internet about this 2566 film, seems it was discontinued in the 90s before internet publication was the norm, so unknown if it actually did have an antihalation layer. Is it possible that this was unrolled for some reason, then recanned and sealed? Or can that much dust really get into a can? The can itself is in fairly good condition, still quite silvery without any visible rust on the outside. Regardless I changed out the plastic dark bag that was holding it with a new non-dusty one. I tried cutting off a test strip and rinsing it well with cold water. No dyes or any visible changes happened. Some dust came off, but definitely not all. Unsure how to salvage this stuff

 

[MattKing]

It looks like there was formerly some information about it on Kodak Alaris' scanning and microfilm site - alarisworld.com .
There is a 2467 film datasheet here: https://www.alarisworld.com/-/media...s/en_d48.pdf?sc_lang=en-au&dtg=20200531170859
Maybe if you reached out to Kodak Alaris?

 

[Jav]

So I've went out on a larp and bought a cheap 1000ft can of Kodak 2466 film, a high contrast, slow speed (~1 ISO) ortho cine film. The expiration printing on the can is 1985. It has no remjet or anything like that, maybe not even a real antihalation layer. Anyway I shot a test roll and developed it in a custom developer and wondering if the film or developer might be the blame here. The spots are white in the negative and most obvious in heavily exposed areas, as when inverted it looks like black spots in highlights. The spots are very tiny, but I think may cause problems when enlarging. The density of the negatives are extremely brown, hinting that the development was mostly on the surface of grains. When I processed a test strip in Ansco 130 to evaluate for fog and safelight sensitivity, the density was a good black and lesser exposed parts were quite olive green. I didn't keep that strip though and so no idea if the white spots appeared there too. The exact formula used:

* "EXG1" 1+1, 69F, 6m development
* 5ml Triethanolamine 99% (formulary)
* Glycin, 0.5g (dissolved in the TEA)
* 3g potassium carbonate
* to 500ml of water

After development was rinsed in water several times and put into TF-4 fixer, then more rinsing and a final wash of distilled water and photo-flo

Other than the peppering the negatives look quite nice, good tonality without too much contrast, fairly short scale that'd be ideal for printing, and very fine grain without losing any sharpness.

 

[Jav]

Hi Granivysion,
Did you ever solve your tiny spots problem? I have a similar issue with spots just like yours. I have found this with two different films and two different developers. Both developers, howerver, are "home brews". One is Edwal-12 and the other is Agfa-12.

The first image (VW bus), is ORWO 100, developed in Edwal-12 (1+0), 68deg, for 7:30 min.

The second image (child detail) is Holga 400, Agfa 12 (1+0), 68deg, for 7:00min.

My process is
Develop: Developer mixed using distilled water;
30 sec agitation, followed by very gentle agitation every minute,
Wash: tap water constant agitation for 30 seconds
Fix: Fix for 4 minutes with Kodak power fixer checked with hypo check and reused
Rinse: Tap water changed 3 times over 1 hour
Final: Distilled water with photoflo
Line dry in darkroom with limited air circulation

 

[pentaxuser]

Jav, we haven't seen grainyvision since Jan 2022 Maybe the person just gave up on being able to "solve " the problem

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

ORWO 100

Holga 400

I'd start by getting a few rolls of Ilford or Kodak film and see if the problem persists.

 

[Jav]

I'd start by getting a few rolls of Ilford or Kodak film and see if the problem persists.

I'll give that a try. thank you